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Post 260

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 4:25pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,
I contend that even if women consume as much or more "hard" news than men, discussing "current events" would not prove the best path for achieving the deep bonding so many seek with a partner.
I agree. Male-female news habits won't get you much in terms of a relationship. However, let's not forget that he followed his statistic with "To them, a current event is the release of a new shade of lipstick." To claim that as based on years of research is unacceptable.

I disagree with other parts of his too. The don't be friends rule? Absurd. All of my relationships start with friendship as a foundation.

Sarah

Post 261

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 6:17pmSanction this postReply
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“So while I would dismiss genetic arguments as racist or sexist, I would not do likewise for cultural arguments.” [Luke]

Genetic arguments are not racist or sexist, Luke. Genetic differences may well exist; it’s just a scientific question. The issue is running outside and APPLYING notions of group average characteristics to individuals. Doing this on the basis of differences purported to have cultural causes instead of genetic ones, is no better.

Consider this:

I go into meeting a gay thinking, “He’ll be a real ass” because I am convinced being gay has a genetic cause that also and always causes assedness.

Or, I go into meeting a gay thinking, “He’ll be a real ass” because I am convinced that in the gay culture they encourage each other to be asses.

The problem in both cases is that I am prejudging an individual based on some kind of “Well, only 40% are X, Y or Z.”

Going back to women, even if only 10% can read at all, you simply talk to a few until you find one who can read and you sit down and discuss current events with her. Who needs a friggin’ book to figure that out?

The problem I sense in Dennis’ approach is that he would have us avoid discussing news with all women because less than half of them know the news. This will lead to you asking the one that does read the news: “What’s new in lipstick?” In the long run, his advice will get us lotsa lays with women who can’t read* and the one that can read writing us off as another Neder dummy, and walking off.

I know you will say that’s not the Neder way, but I hold that one cannot immerse oneself in so much ‘women are like this’ business and consistently stay clear of ‘THIS woman must be like that.’ Especially where the explicit purpose is: ‘I’ll educate you on dealing with women. First, let’s discuss the average woman.’

Remember Lance insisting that they always know what we’re thinking? I disagree with that, but it would not surprise me if most people can detect that someone they meet is holding the preliminary assumption that they can’t read.


*Which sells, I am sure. I’m not criticizing his business skills.


Jon


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Post 262

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 6:47pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,

"Jon advanced a false analogy, Mike Erickson's claim to the contrary notwithstanding."

It is not a false analogy, it illustrates a point. The point is how you appear to a group you make generalizations about. Especially if you use these generalizations to strategize about how you are going to interact with members of the group. It is a far better use of your time and intelligence to simply act genuine with new individuals you meet without any strategy at all except presenting yourself as exactly who you are.

Jon is exactly right, you look for the individual's you want to interact with, don't let your generalizations get in the way of finding them. People damn well know whether you're being genuine or not.

Post 263

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 8:38pmSanction this postReply
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I may be wrong but Dr. Dennis is right.

The theme of his site is about achieving and maintaining laidom. You silly people it is not about stats, truth, longevity, or love. Everyone of you knows you don’t get "connected" talking philosophy! Do not ever compliment anyone else but the person you are with if you want to f...ah, umm...connect with. But, what am I doing? Dr. D has turned this into a science and here am I, a poor amateur, offering advice on how to get lai...um, connected. Be a student and learn from the master.

Humbly offered,

Michael

(Edited by Newberry on 1/11, 8:51pm)


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Post 264

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 9:09pmSanction this postReply
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I contend that even if women consume as much or more "hard" news than men, discussing "current events" would not prove the best path for achieving the deep bonding so many seek with a partner.

Why?

First you must define "hard news." If women know that most "hard news" appears to be only "biased rhetoric," then they are like me, a male. And, why watch it?

Is "not watching" feminine. If so, then I proudly say "I am women, hear me roar!"

And, why does discussing "current events" impair the achieving of deep bonding? This is bogus beyond belief!

The demonizing of female humans over male humans is preposterous. It also reeks of tribalism. And we all know how Ayn Rand felt about the tribal.

 Or do we?

Chicks rule. I know this. Get used to it. I dig their tribe!


gw



Post 265

Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:51pmSanction this postReply
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If “assedness” had any role in “laidom” then I cannot begin to express my delight.

Edit: I mean making up words.
(Edited by Jon Letendre
on 1/11, 11:05pm)


Post 266

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 2:40amSanction this postReply
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I think I'll pop Magnolia in the DVD, groove on Tom Cruise for awhile, then wait for the frogs...

Michael


Post 267

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 5:44amSanction this postReply
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Sarah wrote:

I agree. Male-female news habits won't get you much in terms of a relationship. However, let's not forget that he followed his statistic with "To them, a current event is the release of a new shade of lipstick." To claim that as based on years of research is unacceptable.

He meant, not all women, but the ones who do not watch the news but do focus on values like style and fashion.

I disagree with other parts of his too. The don't be friends rule? Absurd. All of my relationships start with friendship as a foundation.

If you actually read the book, he devotes an entire section to the "friends into lovers" phenomenon.  He warns the reader to proceed with caution because once that threshold is crossed, there is no going back.  If the primary goal is to find a lover and not a friend, then spending time with women who want to be "just friends" will have less payoff than spending time with women who want to be lovers.  This does not mean a man cannot meet a woman and integrate a bond of friendship with the dating ritual, but it does mean it is time to say, "Next!", when a woman says she wants to be "just friends" and squander loads of time in "pal around" mode.  For an anecdote about my own lessons learned from a close "Platonic" relationship gone sour, see my article "Houseguests from Hell."

Jon wrote:

I go into meeting a gay thinking, “He’ll be a real ass” because I am convinced being gay has a genetic cause that also and always causes assedness.

Or, I go into meeting a gay thinking, “He’ll be a real ass” because I am convinced that in the gay culture they encourage each other to be asses.

The problem in both cases is that I am prejudging an individual based on some kind of “Well, only 40% are X, Y or Z.”


False.  I would go into the meeting thinking, "I have a 40% chance of encountering someone who is an ass.  Therefore, I will act with a commensurant degree of caution."  Your statement assumes that a person will judge all people as 100% X, Y, or Z based on a 40% statistic.  I never said that.  I said the statistics offer a guide to get started.  I have just clearly stated the commensurate guide between statistics and productive action.

Mike Erickson wrote:

Jon is exactly right, you look for the individuals you want to interact with, don't let your generalizations get in the way of finding them.

See my comments to Jon about the filtering process.

Newberry wrote:

The theme of his site is about achieving and maintaining laidom.

The theme of his site is about moving quickly and effectively toward quality romantic relationships.

Gary wrote:

The demonizing of female humans over male humans is preposterous.

There is no demonizing here.  There is only a dispute about the best way to mate.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 1/12, 5:47am)


Post 268

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 5:50amSanction this postReply
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Just for the record, this book is not endorsed by RoR Romance. 

Kat


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Post 269

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:00amSanction this postReply
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Luke,
He meant, not all women, but the ones who do not watch the news but do focus on values like style and fashion.
Funny, he didn't say that.

As for the friends issue, "payoff?" There will be less "payoff" with a woman who wants to be friends? What the fuck? Excuse me while I write apologies to all my guy friends for using their time inefficiently by not spreading my legs within the first week. I was so foolish to think that emotional intimacy might actually be significant to them even if sex didn't come afterwards.

This issue is starting to get absurd. I think I'm going to go somewhere else now.

Sarah

Post 270

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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Sarah wrote:

Funny, he didn't say that.

The text clearly implied it.

As for the friends issue, "payoff?" There will be less "payoff" with a woman who wants to be friends? What the fuck? Excuse me while I write apologies to all my guy friends for using their time inefficiently by not spreading my legs within the first week. I was so foolish to think that emotional intimacy might actually be significant to them even if sex didn't come afterwards.

Forget the sex.  No hugs?  No kisses?  No petting?  No long, close, slow dances?  No physical gratification whatsoever?

NEXT!

This issue is starting to get absurd. I think I'm going to go somewhere else now.

Good!

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 1/12, 7:10am)


Post 271

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:09amSanction this postReply
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Luke masters another situation with a female.

Very impressive.

Definitely need to read that Neder book.



Post 272

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:15amSanction this postReply
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Jon, my goal was simply to defend the ideas Neder advanced, not to make close friends with any of the opponents here, male or female.  "Mastering a situation with a female" was not part of the purpose, nor should it have been in this context.

Post 273

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:26amSanction this postReply
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You’re doing great, Luke.


Post 274

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:39amSanction this postReply
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Jon wrote:

You’re doing great, Luke.

Of course.  Thank you for the compliment!  I always appreciate encouragement when pursuing worthwhile goals.


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Post 275

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:44amSanction this postReply
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This thread should be retitled - Ode to the Single Life...

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Post 276

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:50amSanction this postReply
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This thread should be retitled - Ode to the Single Life...
...or How to be Married and Still be Single...


Post 277

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
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Hong wrote:
 
How to be Married and Still be Single
 
No, "Interdependence Not Codependence."


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Post 278

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 8:15amSanction this postReply
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Luke,
Are you kidding me? Of course I depend on my husband and he depends on me too. Otherwise why do we bother to get married? And I consider it a big advantage of marriage: to always have somebody to depend on.

So when your wife says "I hope I can depend on you", what do you answer?   "No no no, honey, please don't depend on me."? Is that what you would say?


Post 279

Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 8:30amSanction this postReply
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He wrote about that just the other day, Hong. He said that while he does try to contribute to her happiness, his own would be unaffected with or without her.

I could try to find it, but what’s the point? The next thing he writes will be even better.


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