Is Rand's take on gender roles in romance part of Objectivism?

Dean,

So quick blame the women! Typical male behavior. I never sanctioned your post, but I think I would have if you'd left it. Now, though, you're gettin' nothing. :-P

Robert,

Now that's an answer worth a sanction!

Sarah

Post 61

Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:54pm

Let me grab my umbrella, cause here come the tomatoe's!!!

Post 62

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 8:57am

Robert, the point I am trying to make is that men and women ARE different, thank god. The sexes have different inherent natures. That is a fact. True, individuals do vary on how they choose to integrate knowledge and abstractions, but it is a fact that because of men and women's physiologic make-up that they each, as a different sex, react and percieve things from a different perspective. This does not make one sex 'better' than the other, it just means that there are perceptual differences. This is not a world of hermaphrodite's. Sex differences are a reality. Sarah, raised a good question; why women aren't as participatory in Oist boards (at least) as men?

Post 63

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 1:21pm

I was not suggesting the sexes be as the same - for sure, they be different, with inherant emphasises on different aspect of the total being. But, too often it comes out as - and it showed in some of the posts - women emote, men think, and that is just nothing less than tribalistic mindset. A truth - as a group, women co-operated among themselves and organized better, as an inducement to survival of the child [and by extention themselves] - but that meant utilizing their thinking, equally as much as any male doing a hunting, if not moreso. It was one of the points made in one of my evolutionary articles, and why the first civilizations were matriarchal.

Post 64

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 1:43pm

Robert, I agree.

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 2:55pm

From what I've read of evolutionary psychology, and anyone who knows better can correct me, there are more inherent differences between individual women than there are between men and women on average.

Sarah

Post 66

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 3:28pm

From what I've seen day after day observing the sexes since I hit puberty, there are more differences psychologically between men and women, as opposed to woman to woman.

Post 67

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 3:46pm

But uncontrolled observation is unable to distinguish inherent differences from learned differences, i.e. socialization.

Sarah

Post 68

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 3:58pm

Sarah:

From what I've read of evolutionary psychology, and anyone who knows better can correct me, there are more inherent differences between individual women than there are between men and women on average.

I think you're referring to the fact that there is greater genetic variability within women than within men (which is something different). However, this doesn't imply that there are no significant differences between men and women, on the contrary.

Post 69

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 4:02pm

Never said it did. The point was that gender is less of a telltale sign than people often assume, when it comes to inherent behavioral differences at least.

Sarah

Post 70

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 4:21pm

The point is that there are significant inherent behavioral differences between men and women.

Post 71

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 4:32pm

What are they? And would you be so kind as to show that they are indeed inherent and not learned.

Sarah

Post 72

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 5:04pm

Sarah makes an excellent point there. Its pretty much impossible to have a perfectly controlled study with humans, or even to have a doubly-blind study. Hmm... but we can try our best. What studies have been done? How good is their data?

One thing that I'd like to point out though: A person's genetics have a profound effect on the properties a person has. Some genetic differences result in larger differences in properties than others. Men and woman in general have a distinctly different section of their genome, namely men have the Y and X chromosome, while woman have two X chromosomes. The physical effects of these differences are easy to identify. The neurological differences, on the other hand, are much harder to identify because of the large range of possibilities that can result from different learning experiences. Never-the-less, surely there is some neurological differences in general between men and women. Which differences? To what extent? A never ending debate because of the aforementioned problems.
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 1/01, 5:05pm)

Post 73

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 4:40pm

It is a combination of both inherent(genetic) as well as learned or cultural factors.

Post 74

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 5:47pm

There's no doubt of that Erik, but the question seems to now be which is which.

Sarah

Post 75

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 6:06pm

It could also be no more than a propensity of particular directions and/or inherent inclinations - which could and oft is offset by conscious directives... [eg - the self-made soul]

Post 76

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 6:22pm

There are physical differences between women and men:

Women are shorter, smaller, have uterus and breasts, and possess weaker physical strength.
Men are taller, stronger, have testicles and penis.

Analysis of all other psychological and behavior differences should go from there.

Post 77

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 6:45pm

I thought women also had more connections between brain hemispheres than men. Can anyone confirm that?

Post 78

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 7:02pm

Luke,

I was able to find this: The Brain - Discovering how each gender thinks, acts and feels

In a part of the temporal lobe associated with language skills, women's brains contain up to 11% more brain cells than men's brains. This does not necessarily mean that women are smarter than men, but it does show they are different.

For example, in men the auditory brainstem response has a longer latency period and smaller amplitude than in women. This may have a profound effect on men's response to auditory stimuli. Other differences in sexual behavior may be indicated by structural distinctions between male and female brains. In the areas of the brain that influence sexual behavior, women are reported to have more gray matter than men in a language-related cortical region, but not in a more visuospatially related cortical region. This indicates that the sexes have structural differences in the cerebral cortex. It also raises the question, are men inherently more responsive to visual sexual stimulation than women and are women intrinsically more responsive to sexual wooing through words?

Post 79

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 9:47pm