Would You Move to Galt's Gulch?

New country ventures do not get much play here. Either there are none running at the moment, or else everyone has written them all off.

Robert Malcom invited the Ozos -- Australian Objectivists, my neologism -- to move to America. I assume that includes the Kiwos, of course, or, heck, just about anyone in Germany or Italy or wherever.

To which, they will reply, that being traditional patriots, they want to stay at home and make their own country free.

I have been in Switzerland. It is boring, but safe. The reason that I do not move their is the fear of having to learn a whole new bureaucracy. My life has been hard enough in a nation that I actually understand. If there were a new nation with new people, I might be more interested.

The chief problem with new nation ventures is that the people running them are wackos.

What about everyone moving to New Hampshire, as has been suggested?

My wife and I have moved a bit over last decade, living outside Columbus, Ohio, in Albuquerque, outside Traverse City, and now in Ann Arbor. One place is pretty much like another. Some things are different, but nothing important. Traverse City was more politically correct for me, but the people there were not conceptual. Ann Arbor is left wing, but at least the people here can talk about it.

I love the West. The American West is the only place on Earth for a rational person. But it is a hard life. Always has been. Always will be. We recently heard Lynn Cheney being interviewed by NPR "Fresh Air" hostess Terrie Gross and Ms. Gross simply did not "get" Mrs. Cheney. We found her completely understandable.

Post 1

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:06pm

Michael, do you believe in synchronicity, because I was going to ask about New Hampshire today! I signed up for the Free State Project 2 years ago, and was thinking about it.
The disadvantage in today's day and age for the discontent is that there are no "new lands" to be discovered in which to start anew. Everything seems claimed (until we get the space thing into high gear, anyway..."A NEW LIFE AWAITS YOU IN THE OFF-WORLD COLONIES!".)
Personally, I don't want much, just a small island...say, Australia...

Post 2

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:27pm

I think it would be interesting. But not to sound like a pragmatist here I'm imagnining what these colonies would be like.

LOTS of philosophers. Lots of other scholars, maybe some less educated people skilled in manual labor. Not a lot of people with large amounts of capital and experience running self supporting businesses. Until this is rectified I'd be scared to do so.

---Landon

Post 3

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:57pm

I was toying with the Free State Project, but shallow single homo that I am, I don't think New Hampshire is exactly gay heaven. I'd have to find a date in Boston, and that's... well... Boston.

Post 4

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:58pm

Yeah, Landon, and the custodians are bound to get bitter after awhile cleaning the toilets when they (the custodians, not the toilets) have brains big enough to run the city.

But maybe there's hope. Let's go to NEW UTOPIA!!! Check out: http://www.carbonfusion.com/utopia/index.php . It's a to-be city built on a sand bar that's just below the surface of the ocean. Ah, castles in the sand... Really, though, I'm more interested in under-the-sea cities. I'm all for that. At least then it'd be much harder for the custodians to leave.

Not serious,
Jordan

PS isn't there a project in Wyoming similar to the one in New Hampshire?

Post 5

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 6:52pm

At least then it'd be much harder for the custodians to leave.

That's cold.

But speaking as a former Janitor who's been smarter than a number of managers I've had I can relate.

But the thing is there are going to be people of limited ability who are comfortable with it and willing to do the job under better conditions (or at least willing to "pay their dues" on the way to a better career).

My fear is there won't be enough businesses big enough to need janitors.

---Landon

Post 6

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 6:58pm

Also Robert,

I think your problem is easier to solve than the bigger ones. It only needs three things MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING. And I think it could turn out pretty well for gays with enough marketing (hell I got my girl don't I don't really need any other straight people there).

I'd still be more worried about not having enough self supporting industry.

More venture capital, more highly skilled industrialists, and a clear plan for which industries go in first.

---Landon

Post 7

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 7:20pm

I was born and raised in New Hampshire. I go back several times a year. (I will be blasting ruffed grouse there in two weeks.) An influx of libertarians would ruin all that is obnoxious and good about that state.

For residents of Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, etc. who wish to travel to Maine for a lobster or a beach, New Hampshire is just a $1 toll going in and a $1 toll going out. Liquor (anything bigger than beer) can be had only from the state-owned stores, which are Wal-Mart sized, and similarly priced, positioned on the freeways.

For years, New Hampshire had a lower threshold for �keeper� lobsters than did her neighbors. It was made clear that if they lowered, so would she.

New Hampshire has no income tax or sales tax, but a huge hotels and meals tax. The thought is that New Hampshirites don�t stay in New Hampshire hotels, outsiders do. Are you sensing a trend?

The state patrolmen are upset, for decades now, that there is no seatbelt law for adults. So they post crosses along the roads where there have been unbelted deaths. Crosses and flowers by the handful per mile on some roads. You have to see it to believe it.

Anyway, the free state idea is a dream. And New Hampshire is a poor choice. The influx from Massachusetts would be easy and overwhelming once the leftists saw the threat.

Live Free or Die.

Jon

Post 8

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 7:24pm

Diversity is one of the elements of an interesting life. To be frank, the thought of being in an all objectivist town bores me. Could you imagine Peikoff as a neighbor? I bet his house smells like cat piss. It would be a great idea to make a awesome vacation resort island though. Get away from the regular world, to an all rational oasis...ahhh..

Post 9

Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:08pm

We're all too close now as it is.

--Brant

Post 10

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 2:24am

Dear Joe Maurone,
Yes, I believe in synchronicity. I also look forward to space travel.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/10/01/russia.olsen.ap/index.html

So far, it is a few orders of magnitude beyond my means.

Still, space is the place! Come to the high frontier!

Landon Erp wrote: I'm imagnining what these colonies would be like. LOTS of philosophers. and then Landon Erp wrote: it could turn out pretty well for gays with enough marketing (hell I got my girl don't I don't really need any other straight people there).

Not on SOLO, I recently cited California's Utopian Colonies by by Robert V. Hine -- available on Amazon. (Somehow orderable through SOLO with a click to Amazon.) Philosophizing was pretty much the failure mode in all the new towns and farms that did not fail over sex. Basically, no one wants to work and everyone wants to screw someone else's non-spouse or (in)significant other.

I recommend highly, How to Start Your Own Country by Erwin S. Strauss. It should be called "How NOT to Start Your Own Country." Libertarians and Objectivists do not come off well in the history of new nations. Also, in numismatics, there is a subset of collecting the money of "micronations." Places like Seborgia survive and prosper for very specific reasons.

Donald Talton wrote: Diversity is one of the elements of an interesting life. To be frank, the thought of being in an all objectivist town bores me. Could you imagine ...

You would not have to go into his house, but you would probably have to hear his voice.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 10/01, 2:49am)

Post 11

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 11:32am

Robert - why don't you think NH would be gay heaven? Just curious.

Post 12

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 12:38pm

I flirted with the Free State project for a little while earlier this year, and was invited to join the semi-official Free State Project nationwide gay/lesbian yahoo group. It had a grand total of six members. I posted a "hello" message, and for a month I got no reponse - I finally unsubscribed.

I asked some of the other Free Staters if there were any gay/lesbian resources for potential relocatees (is that a word?) and got a ton of bashing e-mails in return... along the lines of "how DARE you put your sexual preference (a word to raise my hackles) above the fight for freedom and liberty"?

One person would respond "well, you could drive to Boston" and then a barrage of other Free Staters would respond "how DARE you set foot in Taxachusetts!"

I finally tired of the drama. I thought gay men had the corner on drama - just post a question on a Free State message board and prepare for the fur to fly.

I love freedom and liberty just as much as the next objectivist/libertarian - but I'd also love to get a date with someone who appreciates the same. :-) I'm going to need someone to keep me warm in that cold northern climate!

Post 13

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 1:29pm

More and more I'm thinking Ditko was the only one who got it right. Go off on your own. Don't count on anyone coming with you. State the terms on which you wish to deal with the rest of the world, and give em hell when they invade your space.

---Landon

Post 14

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 1:48pm

The model of Galt's Gulch is interesting in many ways. Rand achieved much with it. One excuse was that when it became illegal to quit, the quitters needed to hide. Yet, in this world of ours, the fact is that anyone who wants to ORGANIZE an "Objectivist" COMMUNITY is probably a communist.

We should all live together so that we can all ... what?

Myself, some days, I live on the planet of the apes. Some days, I live in a millennium more like This Perfect Day than Brave New World or 1984. (I am sorry not to live in Brave New World, actually. I would have traded away Shakespeare for soma and orgy-porgy.) Cyberpunk became too real too fast. Reality beat out science fiction, but that is also pretty muich the world I live in, the world of Neuromancer with oddball terrorists, ineffectively evil governments, megacorporations, gene hackers, and all the rest. Anyway, in that scenario, an "Objectivist community" is a just another collection of oddballs with all the problems of any other survivalist cult.

Then, there are the days that we buy our organic groceries at a major supermarket chain and my wife says, "Aren't you glad we won the Revolution." and I say, "Thank Uni for cakes and cokes."

Post 15

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 2:39pm

Yes, sometimes wish L. Neil Smith's Probability broach was real - oh my would I dive tru that, in a heartbeat...

Post 16

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 2:52pm

I considered the Free State Project because of the idea of creating a state of minimum government, not a state of "Libertarians" or "Objectivists." That's a perfectly legitamate reason for like-minded O'ists to move to the same region. That in itself doesn't make us communists. May as well call us a cult by that logic...
However, I have reconsidered moving to New Hampshire because of the infighting and behavior of the Porcupines, from what I've seen on the Yahoo! Group.

Post 17

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 3:16pm

Ashley,

An acquaintance I know, and his partner, recently left for Rhode Island because they couldn�t stand the harassment. They had moved from Manch to the countryside, but that hadn�t worked out.

The cities, Manchester (aka Manch, ManchAngles, ManchVegas,) Concord, Nashua�are not so cosmopolitan. There are a few places, hippie hot spots, for lack of a better term, where a gay person might get on well. Places like Portsmouth, Hanover (Dartmouth College), Durham (U. of NH). Pretty much the entire remainder of the state is paranoid conservative.

In two weeks I will be in the north. A typical bumper sticker up there is: �Real men spread shit [as in manure fertilizer], they don�t pack it.� A typical joke in a bar: [Making reference to Vermont�s same-sex union movement and NH�s state motto: Live Free or Die] �Have you heard Vermont�s new state motto? �Vaseline, or dry?�

Jon

Post 18

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 3:58pm

How to live in an Objectivist heaven:

1. Become fabulously wealthy.

2. Purchase land from Mexico or Canada. It can be as small as a town.

3. Establish a treaty with your neighbors that will protect your sovereignty. Preferably, you would want a treaty of mutual protection with the US--so your defense would be maintained.

4. Adopt the SOLO constitution.

5. Eliminate or severely reduce tax--i.e., a flat income tax, no property tax, no sales tax, etc.

6. Keep government in its place (i.e., almost none). Run it exactly like a business. Courts, police, keep it to a minimum.

The tax and freedom issues mean that your little town would become a vacation hot spot (drugs, gambling, prostitution legal), businesses would all want to come on board, people would want to live there, and before you know it, you'd need to buy more land. This would be a wonderful example of how we OUGHT to be living across the globe.

Post 19

Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 4:22pm