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Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 7:44amSanction this postReply
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Great article Luke.  Be careful...or else you shall be promoted from Lord Buzzkill to Missionary for Objectivism.   ;-)

You have outlined the issues very well and have shown why Christianity, while completely irrational, works for the majority of people by addressing those four critical needs.  I hope to see more in the series in order to learn how to specifically address those things within our local Objectivists clubs. 

And just a reminder that both the Chicago and Merritt Island Objectivist clubs are having their meetings at 6:00 today.  One lucky new member today at the Chicago group will receive a centennial edition of The Fountainhead.  Hell, if churches can give out bibles, I can give out Ayn Rand's works. 

Kat
Illinois Club Coordinator



Here is the meeting info:

When: Saturday, December 17 at 6:00PM
Where: Clarkes Restaurant on Belmont
930 W. Belmont Ave, Chicago, IL  60657

It is right near the Belmont stop of the red, purple and brown line trains
between Clark and Sheffield. 


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Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 8:41amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

This a good approach.  But it doesn't address one very important issue, which is how Objectivists interact with each other.  There is little spirit of "laisez-faire" and plenty of schadenfreude despite Rand's warning:
The policy of always pronouncing moral judgment does not mean that one must regard oneself as a missionary charged with the responsibility of 'saving everyone's soul'--nor that one must give unsolicited moral appraisals to all those one meets.
Such appraisals are widespead, mean-spirted and self-serving, and often used as a weapon against 'latecomers' to maintain one's own place in the pecking order. 
 
Most Objectivists do not, for long, find joy in each other's company.  Many delight in rooting out evil in the other and ARI is proof that these appraisals/pronouncements are final.  To err is not human, it is evil and irredeemable.   

Judgment is about morality but immoral behavior can be corrected.  It is not as many believe a 'fatal' flaw.  To paraphrase Freud, sometimes an error is just an error, it should not always be viewed as irrefutable proof of evil.

The benevolence of  "Live and let live" in its proper context is the problem you need to solve before there can be a brotherhood of Objectivists.

 
 


Post 2

Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:26amSanction this postReply
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Robert, I agree and intend to address that in a future article.  Such malevolence violates, at the emotional level, the basic human need for bonding.  I need to chew on the underlying causes of such malevolence.  Clearly, other individualistic organizations like Toastmasters have no qualms with fostering mutually supportive bonds, so it can be done.

Post 3

Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

If you solve this problem, you are truly a genius.  I hope you succeed.


Post 4

Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 5:51pmSanction this postReply
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Excellent article Luke!  Maybe your best yet.  The analysis is really insightful, and I have high hopes that with this as your starting point, you're going to accomplish your goals.


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Post 5

Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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This is a really good start, Luke. Having that fourfold taxonomy is a great idea. Using it as a checklist, constantly keeping it in mind can be very helpful in planning club activities, goals, and monitoring whether things are working. Cars need to fire on all six or eight cylinders. Clubs and organizations need to regularly fire on *all* of the four you mentioned.

Phil

PS, I'm never going to criticize your flowchart mentality again.

Post 6

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 9:19amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

I just took the time to ponder this:

Clearly, other individualistic organizations like Toastmasters have no qualms with fostering mutually supportive bonds, so it can be done.
The difference is that Toastmasters assumes diversity of opinion at the outset.  Toastmasters know that facts are facts and that the better argument will win.  They have little interest in characterizing the opponent's motive. 

Objectivists believe in a totally right and totally wrong view of the world which is too often carried to such an extreme that it becomes aversion to compromise.  Since each has his own level of expertise with Rand's philosophy it is patently obvious that conclusions can vary.  But variances are not treated with respect in this community as differences of opinion between honest men or as innocent error, they are treated as heresy.   

The problem is intolerance and the belief that in tolerating another point of view one is compromising with evil. It is the same battle Enlightenment philosophers engaged in with the church, dogma.  Believe it or not, there are certain subjects Objectivists will not permit to be discussed, that are shouted down on this forum and others; an action antithetical to Objectivism itself.  Our charge as Objectivists should be to root out error, not to root out evil.

Objectivist's need to understand compromise in context. Suggested reading Rand's "Doesn't Life Require Compromise?" 
 



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Post 7

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 10:06amSanction this postReply
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Robert, I agree with the general thrust of your post.  I am working on an article called "Learning Lessons from BB&T" in which I will examine the incorporation of "Teamwork/Mutual Supportiveness" into their company philosophy based on Objectivism.  Visit

http://www.bbandt.com

and take a look at their philosophy page, especially the "Values" section.  Their CEO has close ties with ARI so the fact that he saw a need for addressing this subject says something.


Post 8

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 12:25pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,

I especially like this article and I'm looking forward to future ones. I like the BB&T "values" link you provided. I am going to discuss this with my manager at work.

Thanks very much.

Mike E.

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Post 9

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 3:05pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,

Like we discussed at the RoR/Solo meeting, there are several areas to expand on this - especially the normal urge to follow a leader, etc.

Here is just one comment I did not mention on activism in general. The best form of activism that I have seen so far with Objectivism is the following:

Write best-seller fiction based on Objectivism.

Michael


Post 10

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 3:41pmSanction this postReply
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Hmmm - The Alicia Code ?

Post 11

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 4:32pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

Frankly, that's not a bad title...

Michael


Post 12

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 4:35pmSanction this postReply
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"Justice (Fairness)

"The single most significant way in which employees evaluate their managers is in determining whether the manager is just. Employees become extremely unhappy (and rightly so) when they perceive that a person who is not contributing is over-rewarded or a strong contributor is under-rewarded.

"We do discriminate based on competency, performance and character. We consciously reject egalitarianism and collectivism. Individuals must be judged individually based on their personal merits, not their membership in any group"

If they put this into practice, they would be a very different company from the vast majority that are out there. I'll be watching them with interest.


Post 13

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 5:05pmSanction this postReply
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Needs better word than 'code'... 'gambit' maybe? [nah - too Ludlum-like]

Post 14

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 5:27pmSanction this postReply
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Write best-seller fiction based on Objectivism.

I'm workin on it give me a break! ;)

---Landon


Post 15

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
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What - fiction, or bestseller... ;-)
(Edited by robert malcom on 12/18, 5:36pm)


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Post 16

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 7:29pmSanction this postReply
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Fiction definitely... best-seller... hopefully.

I was being jestful earlier but I agree with MSK's assessment.  One of the things that's made Objectivism as successful as it's been is that one of it's key writings is a work of fiction concretizing it's abstract principles.  It serves as a quick and effective way to comunicate the ideas of the philosophy in a meaningful way which reverberates inside of a person in a way abstract principles almost never could.

The biggest competition Objectivism has comes in the form of Christianity.  It has the Bible, the Left Behind series, Chick tracts, the Chronicles of Narnia on it's side... We have Rand's own works and very few others that have really made any kind of mainstream impact... that needs changed.

(note to self to put my money where my mouth is)

---Landon


Post 17

Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 8:43pmSanction this postReply
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Right the fucking on, Landon.

Michael


Post 18

Monday, December 19, 2005 - 7:23amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

  In this day and age to hear a corporation say

We do discriminate based on competency, performance and character. We consciously reject egalitarianism and collectivism. Individuals must be judged individually based on their personal merits, not their membership in any group.
is,  if you will excuse the word, a miracle.  There may be hope after all.

I am blown away by this.  Are you responsible for it?


Post 19

Monday, December 19, 2005 - 7:51amSanction this postReply
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No, Robert, you can thank their CEO John Allison IV for that.  He is an Objectivist, a staunch ARI supporter, a friend of Leonard Peikoff and a benefactor for at least one university program dedicated to the study of capitalism.  I see him as a valuable role model.

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