RoR: Forum

Jez mate, don't beat about the bush, tell us what you really think....

Post 1

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 5:35am

T'is an ill wind that blows nobody any good.

You can see the “well yes, but ...” right there—without the rape, there wouldn’t have been the “new solutions for rape crisis victims.”

Always look on the bright side? Every cloud has a silver lining?
Is the sentiment of these cliches something you really want to persecute?

And note well, the rape was a “tragedy,” not an unspeakable atrocity.

Riiight...only a tragedy. Such moderate admonishment is a clear sign that the pusball in actual fact has no argument against rape at all. Good goin' Sherlock.

My thoughts are that we shouldn't be conducting pusball character assassinations. Should be trying to wrangle the morally grey et al away from the dark side of the force. Should do it all peaceable like. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[Edit- Somebody should write an article about that.]
[Edit- Rick Giles: More fortune cookie wisdom per messsage since 1979]

(Edited by Rick Giles on 10/05, 5:44am)

Post 2

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 6:02am

Linz: Ignore the egregious drivel-merchants from the previous two posts. Your article strikes deep in the pus-peddlars' boils and I thank you for lancing them! :-) Definitely one for the next Free Rad.

Post 3

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 6:12am

Black? White? GREY? C'mon, this is the new millenium, we're living in technicolor.

Seriously, though, I think the people who look for the greys are lost in the metaphor. It might be more revealing to ditch the metaphor. Instead of saying black and white, just call it right or wrong, good or bad, call it as it is. Could someone say what they did about rape if it weren't presented in shades? "Oh, come on, it's not all good or bad, there's some GOOD in rape...". See how revealing that is? You can't hide behind "context" and multicultural points of view. It's either good or bad. Someone was either violated or they weren't.

Post 4

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 6:45am

It's gray, not grey, you silly foreigners!

Post 5

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 6:53am

What I find as disgusting as the people who try to point to the "good" in rape are the people who try to equivocate chosen, mutually beneficial sex with rape. Not only does this equivocation dilute and obfuscate the meanings of words in common usage, but it attempts to taint good actions with evil connotations. For instance, some vociferous militant feminists will attempt to equate all forms of sex between men and women with "rape" by alleging that no woman in our "unequal" society can ever honestly "consent" to sex.

So we have some postmodernists claiming that some good comes from rape and others claiming that all heterosexual intercourse is rape. It is no wonder that postmodernism appears to outstrip religion in its worship of unreason. When words lose their precise meaning, how can one use them to reason at all?

Post 6

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 7:42am

Excellent article Linz. I'm glad you addressed this and have iterated exactly what these arguments are.

Post 7

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 8:57am

When I read the post about rape, I paused on it, contemplating a reply, but I just couldn't. I couldn't even believe what I was seeing. I don't know where it came from, and I don't need to know. My hope is that it was a what-if that was plugging in very wrong variables. A mistake. If not, there is little to do.

The pusballs thing, I don't see much useful purpose in, but, it is Linz's turf, and I could see him going there- the rape comment would piss anyone off.

Post 8

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 9:21am

Excellent article, and a much needed message.

"That’s what their verminous verbosity is all about."

That says it all. Keep repeating the stupid, dangerous nonsense until you exhaust everyone's patience. Newcomers think their "all is grey" nonsense is Objectivism or SOLO. Nem eventually call it what it is efficiently, and leave the thread (as they should, if they value their time).

An occasional smack in the mouth is the exact corect prescription for a Pusbag.

Post 9

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 9:37am

I refuse to believe that Laj meant what he wrote in the sense that the *choice* to rape can be anything but monstrous. I think I know what he meant and I can think of a better example with which to express it: If the rapist chooses an armed victim and gets killed—then something good came of an attempted rape! This example preserves the pure evil of the choice to rape, while still making the wankish, unintended-consequential point he wanted to make; that something good *can* come. Note that my example can even be advocated—we can wish that all potential rapists will choose armed victims and cheer the results.

It certainly is a wankish point. It has nothing to do with the context of the issue: the evil, pure evil, total evil, involved in the choice to rape. I’m not defending his point, or my improved example, they are tricky-dick silliness. All I wanted to say is that he is *only* wankish for making this point. He was not trying to say that anything mitigates the evil of the choice itself. Of course, he could prove me wrong, in which case I will condemn him in terms that make Linz sound like a Pomo apologist.

Jon

Post 10

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 10:34am

People always get painted into a corner by their premises. Trying to justify the impossible.

Rape is despicable, evil and disgusting.

(Unless it is by engraved invitation...)

Michael

PS - Real rape is so contemptible that I even get a bit embarrassed for the man (or woman) who cannot win a sexual partner by attraction.

Post 11

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 11:33am

     Worthwhile post, Linz, though, in my varied forum-readings on SOLO, I can't say that I've noticed many grey (er, gray, um greay?) postings; doesn't seem that SOLO really attracts many of that type (though provocoteurs are noticeable.) I'll have to recheck that section.

     True, one can say that Mengele-type 'studies' could (had?) produce useful 'benefits' to medical-techniques and knowledge for the future, hence, argue that any thing that's considered immoral (rape, whatever) can have some ('unintended' even) beneficial consequences; but, what may be beneficial isn't always worthwhile. Else, 'silver-lined clouds' justify the idea that 'the ends justify the means', intended or not.

     However, for sure, Joe Maurone has a solid point relating to your complaint. Worth thinking about re giving any 'response' to the, uh, non-b&w posters. Stick to responses in terms of 'good/bad' (or moral/moral-worthlessness) and its easy to argue back...if one's so inclined to bother.

LLAP
J:D

Post 12

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 12:37pm

MSK speaks the truth:

PS - Real rape is so contemptible that I even get a bit embarrassed for the man (or woman) who cannot win a sexual partner by attraction.

And though that might be what triggers it, I think it is fact that rape is an act of violence.

best,
rde

Post 13

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 12:52pm

Great article. It reminds us of the cowardice of wishy-washy ethical relativists and multiculturalists who in their pea-soup brains can justify just about anything.

And note well, the rape was a “tragedy,” not an unspeakable atrocity. Pusballs speak in similar vein about 9/11.

Post 14

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 12:54pm

Reminds me of something Ann Coulter said... she was disgusted that people were saying that 2001 would forever be remembered for Enron (implying 9/11 would eventually be forgotten cause hey we brought it on ourselves anyway).

When she's right she's right.

---Landon

Post 15

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 12:57pm

Your reference to 9/11 reminded me of my rage when several professors and students on my campus thought we might have brought it on ourselves -- that we might finally understand through this tragedy the pain inflicted by violence. Yukk!!!!!

Don't you love when someone does that? Like we usually don't have enough things that we're subjecting to hindsight and aren't feeling totally comfy with.

rde
I Ain't Wearin' That.

Post 16

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 1:13pm

Rich:
Over the years (especially from digesting/chewing Rand's thoughts), I've come to think of pretty well all such relativists as, at some deeper and never-admitted level, being almost consciously, 'anti-mind.'

Clearly they have no problem with those whose violence appears to spring from (morally justifiable or not) rage, or any 'negative' emotion; but, if such springs from an intellectual calculated-decision, including, therefore, as being 'justified', well, then they're not quite the 'relativists' they seemed to be.

LLAP
J:D

Post 17

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 1:14pm

Linz wrote,
"Having contemplated what I had shown him, he announced to me that he couldn’t fault it, but neither could he accept it because to do so would require him to “turn my world upside down.” Since then he has projected a resentment towards me that I can only put down to my being the embodiment of a reproach. He knows his world to be depraved, and I am to blame for opening his eyes to its depravity. He would rather have remained in thrall to his mentors without being made aware that they were swamp-dwellers with sores oozing pus."

Linz,
Please invite your pomo-wanker artist acquaintance to participate on SOLO. I'd love to hear from him firsthand if he agrees with your speculation about his motivations and your assessments of his character and loyalties.

Thanks,
J
(Edited by Jonathan
on 10/05, 1:15pm)

Post 18

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 1:59pm

If someone tells you we brought 9/11 upon ourselves, punch them. They brought it on themselves. I know if I had had a loved one killed then, I would. I thought someone should have done that to the Professor in Atlas Shrugged when he told the girl not to cry about her brother (who had died) that it wasn't real anyway. Kick the crap out of him, and tell him it isn't real anyway. Same goes for pacifists.

Post 19

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 2:01pm