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Post 80

Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 10:34amSanction this postReply
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I had gotten interested in NLP when I read Unlimited Power around 1989 or 1990.
I read Awaken the Giant Within years ago and got nothing from it. I have heard that book is better.
My wife and I took an Anthony Robbins seminar in marketing in 1992 and the firewalk weekend in 1994 along with a local course on NLP in 1994.
That works because the coals do not conduct heat well. If you stood on the coals for a while, you would get burned. You would also get burned if you walked on metal. There's a simple scientific explanation for firewalking. NLP does not need to associate itself with this kind of baloney, which is probably why the NLP community doesn't think all that much of Robbins (neither does Ross).

Most of the self-help industry is a scam. This also applies to a lot of the seduction teachings. NLP and Ross are the real deal.

Ross marketed himself well. He managed to get himself on shows like Donahue. He also got the domain www.seduction.com.
Ross obviously worked at cultivating an obnoxious persona in his online transactions
I think it's a sales pitch. People also tell me that his thinking has evolved over the years.
According to a series of articles Nathaniel Branden wrote in The Objectivist back in the late 1960s, what people most crave from a romantic relationship is psychological visibility.  They want safely to be able to bear their souls to their lovers as easily as they bare their bodies.  This visibility aspect differentiates a true romance from a mere roll in the hay.
That's true. But I certainly don't consider Branden a role model. If I have any model right now, it would be one of Ross's best students. He's Vince Kelvin and was just married.

I think the reason Ross's material works is because it makes women feel more fully visible to men in a spiritually intimate way
There's some truth to that. Ross also tells that women generally don't know how to feel good about themselves. A successful Speed Seducer has to do that.




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Post 81

Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 8:49pmSanction this postReply
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Chris,
There is nothing wrong with making a woman feel good.  I'll say again, intent is key.  If you aren't misleading and truly go into an interaction to "leave her better than you found her", then wonderful.

My intention in this discussion was never to judge you personally.  I don't know you.  My comments were meant to have been directed towards NLP in general and Ross Jeffries in particular.  In this discussion, you just happen to have taken on the role of spokesperson for them. 

The point of the question (do women need you to decide their best interest) was to ascertain more fully what you meant when you said you take control of situations so the outcome is mutually beneficial.  The implication of that statement is that you feel you can more fully determine for a woman what is best for her.  I was simply trying to confirm if that is what you really meant.   

This is obviously something that you feel very strongly about, and I am not here to make an enemy out of a perfect stranger.  Therefore, I am bowing out of this discussion (gracefully, I hope) and wish you the best.




Post 82

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 5:17amSanction this postReply
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Deanna,

Taking control is as much an act of my own protection as it is looking out for their own interest. If I don't take control, it often happens that I get cheated.

Last Monday for example, a mechanic gave me an estimate on engine work. He basically said that he would take it apart Tuesday, put it back together Wednesday, and test it Thursday. Well, now on Sunday morning, he still has my car and says that he won't be finished until Monday. It's 50-50 right now as to whether I will deal with him again. Would I hypnotize him just to get the job done correctly? Definitely.

One topic that comes up in the SS group a lot is: "This girl isn't calling me back." I often say something like this: "This isn't a woman thing. Most people don't return phone calls, no matter what the situation." I've often wondered about what type of hypnotic message I should use to get people to return phone calls. This even includes businesses who have a product or service that I want to buy. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it.

It often surprises people to hear this, and I don't think he promotes this at all. But you will be hard-pressed to find a more devtoed family man than Ross Jeffries. He loves his parents as much as anyone I've ever encountered. (I've only met him on the group.) He actually cancelled some events this year simply because his mother is sick.




Post 83

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 5:22amSanction this postReply
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Ben,

I think I was a little hard on you earlier. Ultimately, I should have just given you one other suggestion that I often give to guys who are just starting out with SS. I don't know if you will be able to find this in Elkhart, though.

Take an acting class. I took a few last year and am taking others this year. It could do you a lot of good. You will probably get to meet some great women, too. Fortunately, Austin has quite a scene.

Rapport naturally comes about just from practicing the same scene over and over with a person. It's easy to believe that actors who play couples in movies or television often end up becoming couples in real life. It's mainly because when you act, you let down all the "walls" that are normally keeping you from rapport.




Post 84

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 6:34amSanction this postReply
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Don't worry Chris--I just happened to be really busy yesterday.  I wasn't offended.  I did think it a little odd that you said you'd teach me if I was "worthy" (a few posts ago), but I'd decided to simply ignore that anyway.  I do need a little time to reply to your previous post.



Post 85

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 7:11amSanction this postReply
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I have a lot of opinions on all this stuff. I still have a lot to learn. The theory is one thing, but the execution is another.

As far as whether or not a student is "worthy," I do think guys who have gotten into SS get a little snobbish toward the newbies. But I have also observed that some don't really give the stuff a chance or put enough effort into it. Then they blame the program for their lack of success. We also have to deal with guys who don't like what we do, but then complain: "I can't get a girl friend."

I guess I'm taking the same attitude toward SS newbies that I take toward women. I don't think that's a bad thing. Women are confidence fetishists. And over-confidence is better than under-confidence.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 10/01, 7:12am)




Post 86

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 9:10amSanction this postReply
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Deanna,

You bowed out very gracefully.  I, too, am going to bow out of this thread, but with less grace.

 

Chris,

You don’t owe me anything, but I’d like you to do me a favor.  Next time you run into a situation where you are faced with someone’s incompetence, instead of trying to “hypnotize” them to modify their feelings and behavior, try the following:  think of the nice situations you’ve experienced in the past, where someone gave you the plain hamburger you ordered, or a mechanic did a good job on time.  Then, give your left shoulder a light touch and hold it for a few seconds.

 

Then, the next time you have a bad encounter, just touch your left shoulder.  You’ll feel much better and you won’t feel the need to modify their behavior without their knowledge.  Of course, that won’t solve your problem.  But, hey; you didn’t solve Tony’s problem either.  All you did was cure a symptom, sort of like the behavioral modification equivalent of Prozac.  But, at least we won’t have to read your “kvetching” any more.

 

Thanks,

Glenn




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Post 87

Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 12:17pmSanction this postReply
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How do people use reason when they make these decisions? Can you give any evidence that women use reason at all?
If you don't believe that they do, I probably can't do anything to change that (aside from doing a large amount of research).  Nor could you convince me that none do.  Suffice it to say that I believe some women do, and those are the ones I'm interested in. 
I do sometimes call NLP "hacking the subconscious." The fact is that the natural seducers already do this without making a concerted effort. They just aren't aware of what they do.
Can you show me this?  You're stating it as a fact.  Aside from that, I don't really care to be a seducer, even if it gets me more sexual interaction.
I was really fed up with him. During this particular week, I changed hotels because the Best Western had outside entrances (which he didn't like). On a previous week together, he changed hotels because the Hampton Inn didn't have a refrigerator in the room after he had asked me to make reservations for both of us. The only hotel he did like just happened to be over our per diem rate. I felt like I was dealing with a little kid. It wouldn't have been a problem if we hadn't been sharing a rental car.
Why say all this?  This makes me more inclined to disapprove of your method, since I now associate it with anger, rather than benevolence.  (Am I speaking your language now?)

Did you try talking to him rationally and benevolently?  "I understand you have frustrations about hotels, but..."
I would guess that people use [weasel phrases] all the time, without understanding their impact.
Wait.  Earlier it was a fact, but now it's a guess?
That's the reason for inducing states in a woman. It's so she will give me a chance. If she LJBF's me, I have no chance. You always want to make sure she is looking at you as a potential lover.
Actually, I don't want it.  I see this as a way of living in submission to fear.  Perhaps most women will "LJBF" me--I accept that it's their moral right to do so--but a few won't.
I think women develop these [mental/spiritual connections] after sex. If you don't sexualize it, the mental and spiritual connection may never come.
Part of the process you've described--the process of seducing a woman with NLP--is creating (artificial) emotional connections, which precede the sexual interaction, so you just contradicted youself.  Furthermore, I think it's repulsive to "piggyback" on a woman's good memories by associating them with yourself, when you weren't even there, and didn't share the same kind of memory.
Almost all "social skills" are bull manure. I have always been skeptical of anyone who has good "social skills."
You mean like tact, honesty, rationality, integrity, benevolence, assertiveness, and being able to listen well?  Those are the kinds of social skills (or virtues) I had in mind.




Post 88

Monday, October 2, 2006 - 6:52amSanction this postReply
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Next time you run into a situation where you are faced with someone’s incompetence, instead of trying to “hypnotize” them to modify their feelings and behavior, try the following:  think of the nice situations you’ve experienced in the past, where someone gave you the plain hamburger you ordered, or a mechanic did a good job on time.  Then, give your left shoulder a light touch and hold it for a few seconds.
Strangely enough, there is a little voice inside my head saying that this could actually be effective. It seems like you have the basics of NLP anchoring down. I also feel like you get it.




Post 89

Monday, October 2, 2006 - 7:19amSanction this postReply
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If you don't believe that they do, I probably can't do anything to change that (aside from doing a large amount of research).  Nor could you convince me that none do.  Suffice it to say that I believe some women do, and those are the ones I'm interested in.
I don't put such limits on myself. I know that when I have a good, healthy relationship, it will change both of us for the better. Two people who love each other inspire one another to improve themselves. They challenge the people they love.
Can you show me this?  You're stating it as a fact.  Aside from that, I don't really care to be a seducer, even if it gets me more sexual interaction.
Find a natural seducer or think about someone you may have known in the past. Think about what he did, how he talked, how he walked, and how he stood out in a crowded room.

I never had any desire to be an Olympic swimmer, but that doesn't mean I couldn't learn from them. I don't expect you to become a natural seducer. But it does sound like you want more power and choice in your romantic life. I'm trying to tell you that there are ways that you can get it.
Why say all this?  This makes me more inclined to disapprove of your method, since I now associate it with anger, rather than benevolence.
Your association is correct. Tony was acting like a five year old. I expected him to act like an adult.
Did you try talking to him rationally and benevolently?  "I understand you have frustrations about hotels, but..."
I never did because I figured it would be useless.
Actually, I don't want it.  I see this as a way of living in submission to fear.  Perhaps most women will "LJBF" me--I accept that it's their moral right to do so--but a few won't.
I see what you mean here. You can't go out sarging motivated by the fear of being of LJBF'd. You have to have a positive goal--which is getting a woman's natural attraction process moving toward yourself.

What do you want? What is your plan for getting it?

By the way, sarging is a term we use to mean pursuring a woman or trying to pick up. Ross Jeffries had a male cat named Sarge, who was apparently pretty horny.

Every woman has a right to LJBF me. I also have a right to want more than that.
Furthermore, I think it's repulsive to "piggyback" on a woman's good memories by associating them with yourself, when you weren't even there, and didn't share the same kind of memory.
Yes, but I am going to create better memories for her anyway. It's about giving a woman a great experience that she can keep with her even if she only spends one night with me.

This kind of piggybacking happens all the time. It often happens that I become interested in a woman because she reminds me of someone else. There's a lot more to it anyway.
You mean like tact, honesty, rationality, integrity, benevolence, assertiveness, and being able to listen well?  Those are the kinds of social skills (or virtues) I had in mind.
Many such "social skills" are non-verbal. Most of Speed Seduction is non-verbal. It's voice tone, body language, and pacing. It's how you pause, how you annunciate your words, how you hold yourself.

You earlier said that such techniques bypass rationality. They do. A sophisticated verbal language is what separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom. It is a product of human rationality. Non-verbal communication is for animals. Unfortunately, the subconscious mind pays more attention to the primitive form of communication.

This is why I say that NLP is like speaking a different language. Being a rational being, I worked on developing rational modes of communicaton for most of my life. Now I am catching up and learning to speak the primitive, backward language that most people speak.

If people like your non-verbal communication, they will listen to almost anything you say and like it. If they don't like your non-verbal communication, it doesn't matter what you say.




Post 90

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 6:55amSanction this postReply
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We had a cool thread going. Where is everybody?




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Post 91

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 7:15pmSanction this postReply
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I lost the desire to continue discussing.  I ought to have said so.  I was never interested in learning the method; I was only interested in some discussion of the topic.

It seemed as though you were ignoring my message that I wasn't interested in learning speed seduction.  Correction: not ignoring, but weaving around it--continuing as though I were interested, even though I said I wasn't.
Every woman has a right to LJBF me. I also have a right to want more than that.
I don't think it's okay to directly manipulate a person's subconscious so that they give me what I want (regardless of any alleged benefit to her).  I don't want a relationship that way anyway.
But it does sound like you want more power and choice in your romantic life.
I don't, right now.  I have more important things to put my effort into.




Post 92

Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 12:58pmSanction this postReply
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Ben,

If you don't want to learn it, that's cool. But don't judge if you don't want to learn it or judge those of us who do study it. I love this stuff.

Incidentally, I have just learned that Ross Jeffries will be on Doctor Phil in the future. Ross doesn't know when it will air yet.




Post 93

Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 2:54pmSanction this postReply
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Here is a cool video with Richard Bandler. There is also some stuff by Ross Jeffries nearby:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1409055321164226057&hl=en




Post 94

Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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Ross Jeffries recently announced that he taped a show with Doctor Phil. They have not set an air date, however. I will keep you all posted.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 10/26, 1:32pm)




Post 95

Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 7:46pmSanction this postReply
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Here is a good phone interview with Ross Jeffries. This is the first of five parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvtNF20Dw_o&mode=related&search=




Post 96

Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 4:32pmSanction this postReply
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Ross is coming to Dallas next month. I will be there, too.

It should be a blast!

Chris




Post 97

Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:46pmSanction this postReply
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http://www.mindempowerment.com/upcoming.html

This is the seminar where Ross Jeffries will be. Personally I like Vince Kelvin better.




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