RoR: Forum

I have found that tipping is a fantastic method of merit-based reward. There have been times in the past when I've left no tip, and times when I've left a $100 tip. Once, in a restaurant I frequented, one of the waitresses was such a bitch that I left her one shiny penny to get my point across succinctly. She was more careful of her attitude next time.

I find that when the tip is included, almost invariably the service is lackluster. If it is a four or five-star establishment, the case is quite different, but in your average Parisian bistro you might sit for 30 minutes before the waiter arrives at your table for the first time. There is no incentive for him to hurry -- he's getting 18% either way.

What causes me great disdain is the "tip" jars I now see on every store counter from Dunkin' Donuts to Joe's Sandwich Shop. Now, these people are paid hourly, and they agreed to take a job for said wages, so why in hell do they merit a tip? For not screwing up your order?

I think not.

Post 1

Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:27pm

Hey Jennifer,
I agree, it's great to be able to reward a really great server or "de-merit" a terrible one. Lots of people have a thing about leaving a "minimum" regardless of service but that seems to miss the point of the tipping system. I can understand a minimum if the service is just adequate and not bad, but if it's terrible why reinforce that behavior?

As far as the tip jars, I've noticed them too and wondered what the deal is. The only exception is coffee shops when you're ordering an espresso drink (e.g., latt�, mocha, brev�) that takes more effort than just pouring coffee into a cup. In those cases I always tip but that could be subjective prejudice - I used to work in a caf� and took pride in making a great drink, and I assume the same of the person behind that big shiny beautiful espresso machine.
I also frequent a particular coffee shop here in Atlanta a LOT so I try to tip regularly as a sort of insurance for getting treated better- instead of being treated as that weird guy that's always here :-) (Hmm, that almost sounds like pragmatic blackmail...)

Jason

Post 2

Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:07pm

Tipping is bribery.... one pays for the service when going out to eat in a restaurant... if no service wanted, then go to such as Piccadilly or Lums or whatever cafeteria is in the area.... and the lower price reflects the lack of service.....

Above and beyond - ah, then, perhaps a furtherance of monetariness...

Now - agree - this is not how it is perceived by most.... but none the less, this is the real way of it - and the low pay of the waitresses involve supply and demand - as those in cafeterias get at least minimum wage and the business prospers, with the customer paying less.....

Post 3

Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:15pm

I was discussing tipping with a reasonably new acquaintance - a waitress. She is fairly happy with her new job, complained about a former one and also felt that waiters deserved more tips - particularly for good service. She agreed with the practice of tipping well for good service and tipping less for poor service - but probably not as extremely as I (I'm rather like Jennifer).

Later the conversation drifted to a proposed new minimum wage "determination" for waiters (our labour laws allow these by industry - thankfully only a handful of industries have them). Surprisingly, she was supportive of the minimum wage and also not supportive of some restaurants that actually charge waiters rather than paying them (as waiters there earn alot of good tips on the back of the good name, good food and often high prices of the restaurant).

After a short explanation of the ideas above and arguing that as a good waitress she should support highly discriminatory remuneration (on rational grounds of course), she admitted that I may have a point. A rare event in these parts.

So bring on tips and huge bonuses in general.

Post 4

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:17am

Having known a lot of waitstaff, I know how much they are/were paid and how much a tip is part of their pay. In the early to mid 90s a waiter or waitress was paid $2.55/hr in most of the upscale restaurants I frequented. The rationale behind this pay is that they receive tips, which form the majority of their income. I say tip good waitstaff and tip them well as I doubt this has changed much in the last few years. Also, anyone who thinks waiting tables well is an easy job that requires no skill has either never done it, or did it poorly.

Ethan

Post 5

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:50am

Ethan, there is indeed an art to it.

I am most impressed by waiters and waitresses who are able to take a table's order without writing anything down -- and who get it right. This is the sign of a highly skilled individual, and a form of radiant competence that sets my heart aglow.

In fine dining, the waitstaff has typically chosen to enter the profession as a formal career; those who excel at it easily make a six-figure income. And they earn every penny.

Jennifer

Post 6

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 4:41pm

I recently celebrated my birthday with a meal out at Ginas in Auckland. Brilliant food & drink, but the waitress was trying to take our order without writing anything down. It would have been very impressive but for the fact she had to come back, twice, to confirm our orders. It made the difference (the wrong way) between a perfect evening, & a brilliant one.

Hence no tip to the waitress, but a hearty expression of thanks to the chef on the way out (the kitchens are right next to the dining area, separated only by a low partition wall; one can feel it when they start cooking with flames).

Post 7

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:09pm

I do tip for good service, tip well for excellent service. For truly bad service, I will just leave a penny. I think that has more impact than leaving no tip whatsoever, as then the server just believes that you stiffed them. They see that penny, they know you are saying they gave you bad service.

Except for large parties, I do not like it when the tip is automatically figured into the bill. As has been said by others here, that leaves the server with no incentive to do well.

As for tip jars, I always ignore those.

In the issue of paying waiters and waitresses more and thus doing away with tips, just remember that they took the job knowing how pay worked and, if restaurants did do that, the price of the meal would have to be increased. Such is the dilemma.

Ron Tobin
Philosophers Guild

Post 8

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:14am

Since nobody else is doing it, I'm going to put in a rant for the "grumpy old man" category: tipping is intensely irritating!

As far as I am concerned, the best waiter is one who fulfils the basic functions and is otherwise invisible. Tipping, unfortunately, tends to encourage the opposite.

Furthermore, tipping is akin to a bargaining process, something which I don't want to get into when I am trying to relax over a meal, or ride in a taxi. I find it irritating that, in the US anyway, the culture more or less requires me to assess the quality of the waiting staff, when all I really care about is that they don't do a noticeably bad job. The concept of tipping implies that I should actually give a damn about the wretched waiter or his performance, when frankly, I don't!

Why not just stick with published prices? Leave staff discipline up to management, I never asked for the job. I'll exercise my judgement by choosing to go frequent the place or not.

Tipping. Bah!

Post 9

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 1:55pm

Tim:

Good one! I agree with you entirely.

And while we're eliminating tipping, how about restaurants come out of the dark ages and install a simple device to notify the waitress that service is needed? The last thing I want is a waitress interrupting my conversation every 5 minutes to ask "is everything OK?". But I don't want to have to keep an eye out for her so I can attempt to catch her attention as she goes by either.

Post 10

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:19pm

I think there is a market gap here for cranky old bastards like Tim, Shayne and myself. Something like this:

- waiter is paid well by restaurant and given strict instructions to only interrupt diners "when they require"...
- "when they require" is an information age "DING DING" bell that sends an electric shock, ring, whatever it takes to the waiter to tell him to get to the table NOW.
- ownership takes it upon itself to ensure waiters know their place, that they are a mere piece in the puzzle, a necessary part of the whole that makes up the dining experience. They are not there to charm or impress, just to do as they are told. Actually, they will not be known as "waiters" (WAITERS! They make you WAIT!) but "servants" (SERVANTS- to serve you like servile slavish slaves)
- Tips shalt be discouraged. If received, they shall be pocketed by ownership of said establishment as recognition of the superb job THEY have done to create the superior dining opportunity.

This restaurant will be packed with loaded business people and their gorgeous girlfriends, who will generally be prepared to pay through the nose for the opportunity to at last to be served on their terms without having to run the restaurant whilst on their eating break. It will be a roaring success and drive a worldwide shift back to the age when the customer really DID come first.

Post 11

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:08pm

Shayne wrote: And while we're eliminating tipping, how about restaurants come out of the dark ages and install a simple device to notify the waitress that service is needed?

Those are common in Japan. There is a button on your table that you press to notify the waiters that you are in need of service. The Japanese waiters also do not expect any tips, and many find the concept of tipping amusing. Hai, dozo!

(Edited by Byron Garcia on 1/26, 3:10pm)

Post 12

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:11pm

David: I'll drink to that!

Tips shalt be discouraged. If received, they shall be pocketed by ownership of said establishment as recognition of the superb job THEY have done to create the superior dining opportunity.

Or they could go to the people whose skill, artistry and integrity are what really make a good meal: the chef and his crew! Imagine, tipping those who did a great job creating the thing you went there for in the first place instead of people who merely carried it from one spot to another.

Post 13

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 7:58pm

A while back I visited a friend who lives in Key West, Florida. Doug (my friend) gives extremely generous tips to good bartenders and waiters and, as a result, was treated like royalty everyplace he went in town and seemed to be on a first name basis with everyone.

Post 14

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 8:49pm

David, Tim, Shayne,

You cranky old bastards should stay home and eat beans out of a can. Tipping a good waiter or waitress is a joy. Normal is 15%, good service is 20%, exceptional is 25% or more. Normally I am a cheapskate, but I like to go out and eat and I consider the tip just part of the meal. If I pay more, it's more that worth it. I like being waited on. Don't let crappy service once or twice ruin your appreciation of the exceptional ones. Of course, if you go out every single day, perhaps you should consider a buffet.
My vote was "works fine"
(Edited by Mike Erickson on 1/26, 8:51pm)

Post 15

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:42pm

Or they could go to the people whose skill, artistry and integrity are what really make a good meal: the chef and his crew!

Shayne, I don't think there's a chef or cook who would disagree with you. :) That is often the cause of a great deal of bitterness between those inside the kitchen and those transporting the food.

Post 16

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:22am

Tipping is a much needed financial incentive. Usually waitstaff make less than minimum wage and tips are counted as income and reported. Tips are often shared between the waitstaff and busboys. This I disagree with. I usually tip using two times tax as a guideline. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the service. If I have to get my own order, i.e. Starbucks, I see no reason to tip (unless the barista is really hot). I hate it when people such as bellhops give you barely a minute of facetime to flag down a cab and expect a tip for simply blowing a whistle. It would also be nice if it were generally accepted if tips were based on service rather than the price of the meal.

Post 17

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 10:30am

http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/machan/machan7.html

Mike Erickson wrote:

You cranky old bastards should stay home and eat beans out of a can.

Post 18

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:14am

Point taken. Thanks for the link, I hadn't read that one. I should have put "cranky old bastards" in italics. I was just repeating that phrase from Davids' previous posts. My post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
I had a girlfriend once who always complained about something whenever we went out. Always found something about the food or service she didn't like. Made life miserable for whoever waited on us. Curious it happened every time. We didn't last. I guess the subject reminded me of her bitching. The "stay home and eat beans" was for her.

Post 19

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 7:04pm