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Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:22amSanction this postReply
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OH. MY. GOD. This reminds me so much of <insert name of weird guy> and his IT device that he was always going on about... who was that? Was his name George? Man! Who was always talking about that! I read a bunch of articles he posted about people who said the government was controlling their mind, etc. I think I even defended him on the SOLO mailing list for a while. Maybe it was even called the IT weapon. Does anyone still have access to those posts?

Post 1

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:32amSanction this postReply
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Sounds like something in the spirit of "Project X."

Post 2

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:09pmSanction this postReply
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An interesting device. I wonder how effective the control really is. For instance, can you refuse to obey the stimulus and succeed? Or was the author merely willing to go along with it?

Not sure what this has to do with epistemology, perhaps Michael would like to elaborate.

This is another one of those devices that raises exclaimation points for some people who imagine a nightmare regime implementing it on everyone everywhere. Short of a nightmare regime, I don't see how it can be useful for anyone other than for entertainment purposes as mentioned. The author envisions it being used as a non-lethal weapon, but that would seem infeasable as it requires the headset, and if you're able to fix a headset upon your enemy they have much more than loss of control to worry about! I can't imagine creating the necessary current wirelessly, as would need to be done for a real weapon.

I think it might be a nice way to command an unruly pet. Hehe...

Other than that I think devices that work the other way around -- enabling humans to control computers with their minds -- are much more interesting.

Post 3

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:13pmSanction this postReply
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Oops, somehow I didn't read the last few paragraphs of the article... some of my above points were addressed.

Namely that you can possibly disobey the command, though it may be uncomfortable.

Post 4

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:31pmSanction this postReply
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And here I was all saving up for a Sirius unit so I can keep listening to the Stern Show. I want 4 of these units, one for each pet. Then we have races.

Seriously, though... galvanic stimulation in my ears. NO EFFING WAY. I like how they don't think it can cause any damage. Uh huh.

Other fun applications... Ex: Build into performer's monitor headset (American Idol candidates would be ideal), give to audience member.

rde
No effing way.


Post 5

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:20pmSanction this postReply
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Figure - first the earphones, then an implant - then require implanting at every hospital... really think couldnt be done? Quietly and under cover of not letting it be known?

Post 6

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:50pmSanction this postReply
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James Collins, professor of biomedical engineering at Boston University, has studied using the technology to prevent the elderly from falling and to help people with an impaired sense of balance.
Being someone with an impaired sense of balance myself, I'm hoping Collins and others are successful in perfecting this technology.

Post 7

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 5:31pmSanction this postReply
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Ricky, you wrote:
Not sure what this has to do with epistemology, perhaps Michael would like to elaborate.
Sure. According to Objectivist epistemology, concepts are integrated from percepts which come from data inputted through the sense organs. (Concepts are also integrated from other concepts.) Also, man is a volitional being - meaning that a decisions like which direction to walk is made by his conscious control. A command from the volitional part of his conscious is sent via brain and nerves to the feet, legs, etc. and off you go.

What this thing does is feed you that "want" directly through sense input - not the contrary.

That needs a great deal of thought.

Michael


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Post 8

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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There are no implications for epistemology here at all. This is hardly more advanced than making your knee jerk by tapping the cap- a prehistorical discovery. It is merely an advance on motor control, a new way for man to control flesh. That's prehistorical too, it is usually done with whips and chains.

The senses still tell us that existence exists. With this headset confounding us our senses don't tell us the nature of reality but they never have. We will continue to perceive reality as before, it's only that the intellectual challenge of figuring out the nature of existence seems to be more difficult than it was before.

Objectivism is future proof. It doesn't need to be rethunk in epistemological principles, it is not so easily shaken, on account of new technological outcomes.

Figure - first the earphones, then an implant - then require implanting at every hospital... really think couldnt be done? Quietly and under cover of not letting it be known?

Bet you tell great campfire ghost stories. :)


Post 9

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:33pmSanction this postReply
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Rick,

If you read the article, you will see that it was more than a kneejerk - it make the guy "want" to do something. It got to his faculty of volition.

That's a hell of a lot different than an automatic muscle reaction.

Michael


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Post 10

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:43pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Yeah, it made him "want" to walk in a certain direction so as not to fall down. Just like I "want" to breathe even though I'm under water. The body does lots of stuff subconsciously and tricking the senses doesn't negate volition. I'm on Rick's side on this one.

Sarah

Post 11

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:55pmSanction this postReply
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Remotely messing up a person's balance is a far stretch from "remote controlled" human.

Here are some other things you can do to mess up a person's balance:
1. Spin them in circles.
2. Expose them to high power low frequency sound.
3. Drugs.
4. Punch them in the ear.

Woooie!

Dean
w/ a touch of sarcasm.

Post 12

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:24pmSanction this postReply
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Kelly,-

I read about this same thing in a local rag here in Melbourne two days ago. They kept it a bit more factual. Your guy has put his own spin on the story. He's telling a tale, spinning a yarn. Exaggerating! Puffed it up for good copy.

Your brain is safe.


Post 13

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 11:14pmSanction this postReply
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Bob, both Ginkgo and Ginger supplements (herbals) have reduced vertigo -- in clinical trials. Also, there is a manipulate (e.g. chiropractic) intervention called the Semont maneuver, which is about 80% effective in 'fixing' that vertigo that is morning-specific. Have you ever looked into these 3 things?

Just shamelessly showing off my health knowledge, now.

Ed
[my favorite part of the human body, is the gyroscope located in the inner ear -- 3 semi-circular canals (for the 3 dimensions!) with fluid and otoliths triggering receptor-based hairs which 'tell us' if we're balanced or not]

Post 14

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
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I am with Rick and Sarah, this is just a method of messing with the mechanisms that facilitate perception and actions.  It made the person want to walk to the right because it tricked him into thinking he was falling over.  However he had to want to walk in the first place.

This is more along the lines of what you are worried about

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7302
Remote controlled Rats

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52236,00.html
Mouse controlled Rats

and

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/robot_rat.jpg

But I do not think this kind of technology will work well for beings that are not mostly controlled by genetic instinct and reflex. 

Michael F Dickey


Post 15

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 3:25pmSanction this postReply
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As soon as nano-bot can be created that can penetrate the brain, lodge themselves in strategic regions to stimulate, and link to an external cellular radio system, some very "interesting" social and political possibilities will be realized. Delgado did his research back in the 60's, IIRC, with interest from the CIA.

Googling for Jose Delgado:

http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/chap16.htm

The old dream of an individual overpowering the strength of a dictator by remote control has been fulfilled, at least in our monkey colonies, by a combination of neurosurgery and electronics, demonstrating the possibility of intraspecies instrumental manipulation of hierarchical organization. As shown in Figure 23, a monkey named Ali, who was the powerful and ill-tempered chief of a colony, often expressed his hostility symbolically by biting his hand or by threatening other members of the group. Radio stimulation in Ali's caudate nucleus blocked his usual aggressiveness so effectively that the animal could be caught inside the cage without danger or difficulty. During stimulation he might walk a few steps, but lie never attempted to attack another animal. Then a lever was attached to the cage wall, and if it was pressed, it automatically triggered a five seconds' radio stimulation of Ali. Front time to time some of the submissive monkeys touched the lever, which was located close to the feeding tray, triggering the stimulation of Ali. A female monkey named Elsa soon discovered that Ali's aggressiveness could be inhibited by pressing the lever, and when Ali threatened her, it was repeatedly observed that Elsa responded by lever pressing. Her attitude of looking straight at the boss was highly significant because a submissive monkey would not dare to do so, for fear of immediate retaliation. The total number of Ali's aggressive acts diminished on the days when the lever was available, and although Elsa did not become the dominant animal, she was responsible for blocking many attacks against herself and for maintaining a peaceful coexistence within the whole colony.


Scott

Post 16

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 4:36pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, thanks for the suggestions. My problem isn't vertigo, though, its disequilibrium. Here's my brief history on this subject:

Four years ago a virus (I was sicker than I had ever been before in my life) randomly destroyed the nerve endings in my right ear. The doctor called it acute sudden onset sensorineural hearing loss. I lost total hearing in my right ear and also experienced dizziness, disequilibrium, aural fullness (a feeling of pressure in the ears like when you take off in an airplane - only I was on the ground) and tinnitus (ringing in the ears.)

My sense of balance was also damaged in my right ear. When this happens, with time the good ear usually will take over for the balance problem in the bad ear. In my case this wasn't happening. So two years ago I had surgery to completely destroy the balance in the bad ear. In theory the good ear would take over completely and balance problems would go bye-bye. In my case, again, this didn't happen. What did happen though was a marked improvement. The aural fullness is now rare and the disequilibrium is much less severe than it had been previously. Also, it's much more consistent from day to day. Before, I had good days and bad days.

I've undergone electronystagmography (ENG,) dynamic posturography (equilibrium platform testing,) vestibular function testing and visual-vestibular integration testing (both in a rotary chair.) I've also been through vestibular rehabilitation (physical therapy.) The verdict: only time might improve my condition but it may remain unchanged or deteriorate more.

As far as my hearing, a year ago I had a titanium pin drilled into my skull behind my bad ear. I can now attach a hearing aid to the pin (it's much like a button snap.) The sound that is picked up by the hearing aid causes a vibration in my skull which is heard by my good ear. This process is called direct bone conduction. It's not perfect but it does help me hear substantially better. For more on this, go to Baha.

These health problems had a substantial impact on my life initially. I missed about a month and a half from work and had to forego a lot of physical activities and I still must limit some of the physical things I do. But both the surgeries I had have helped tremendously and there is little I limit myself from now. Life is good even though I must give up my dream of walking a tightrope over Niagara Falls.


Post 17

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:40pmSanction this postReply
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Michael D,

Yup. Same line of thought. There is a very thin line that will be crossed in the future that actually will get to the human faculty of volition by remote control.

Already brain implants are allowing paraplegics to operate robotic arms and computers with thought alone (by thinking something that produces certain brain wave patterns). The reverse is really not that far off.

I will look up a drug they use in Colombia (from a root) that makes a person enter a trance-like state and simply turn his will over to whomever is present. It is usually used for the local version of voodoo, but there has been some spy monkey-business with it. I will look it up and post it here later.

Michael


Post 18

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 7:54pmSanction this postReply
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OK, found it. The drug is called scopolamine. It is used for motion sickness, but also Colombian voodoo.

Here is the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine

Another more conspiracy-based story comes from the Pegasus file by a former CIA agent in this document: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine

Here is the story from that article on spook-use by David Guyatt, back in the Nicaragua contra days (Tatum is the ex-spook):

Other "neutralisations" verge on the bizarre.  An individual who must remain nameless for a variety of reasons - but whose name is known to this writer - underwent an experience that is both horrific and chilling.  Readers are warned that what follows is not at all pleasant.  For sake of ease we shall call this individual “Mr X” or simply “X.”

Mr. X was a leader of one of the largest CIA-backed Contra groups.  He recently testified before the US Senate Intelligence Committee.  Formerly, Mr X was a senior executive in a South American subsidiary of leading US soft drinks corporation.  During his Senate testimony, he denied any knowledge of CIA involvement in the narcotics trade, adding that condoning such activity would have been foreign to his way of life.  Not so, says Tatum.  Mr X had been recruited into the CIA by then Director, William Casey, with the assistance of Oliver North.
 
In 1990, when Nicaraguan leader, Daniel Ortega, announced there would be "free elections," X was ecstatic.  He began jostling for position and asked President Bush ensure he be given a prominent position in the new government - in return for his years of toil at the behest of the CIA and the “Enterprise.”  The pressure came in a form that Bush could not ignore.  Failure  to help his friend would result in X’s intimate knowledge of Bush's involvement in the dope trade being made public.  His threat left Bush with a sour taste.  A Pegasus team was assigned to “neutralise” him in early 1990.
 
X, Tatum states "fancied himself a lover of women.  Tall, large-breasted blondes were his favourite.  It was determined that, if effectively neutralised, [X] could be an asset.  Therefore, it was decided that intimidation would be used to control [X]."  They choose to use the drug "Scopolamine" which also went by the nickname "Burundanga" or the "Voodoo drug."
 
The drug is extracted from the pods of a flowering shrub that grows in remote regions of South America.  In it's processed, powdered form, "Scopolomine" is "void of smell, void of taste."  When properly administered "it causes absolute obedience," without this being "observable by others."  Importantly, the target will not recall any of the events that occurred during the period they were under the spell of the drug.  In outlining these details, Tatum adds that it is important to administer the drug in the correct dosage and that he has known targets to die from too high a dose.  Others have "remained under the influence of Burundanga for up to three weeks."  Precise dosage can be achieved by liquid ingestion; the powder being readily soluble.  Ingestion via cigarettes is also an optimum method of ingestion.  It is fast acting and takes no more than 20 minutes to work.
 
X was invited to spend a relaxing week-end at a luxury hotel as a guest of his friend George Bush.  The evening started with cocktails and was followed by a fine meal.  "Nothing but the best were the orders."  Following the meal, he was ushered into the suite of a blonde “bomb-shell,” supplied by the CIA.  A dose of Burundanga had been ingested during pre-dinner cocktails.
 
His host for the week-end was a trusted18 year veteran field intelligence officer.  X was gallant with the blonde as they both moved into the bedroom where video cameras were already set-up in one corner.  In short order, the blonde had X standing naked in front of her, slipping his manhood in her mouth.  All the while the video cameras whirred.  Slowly stripping off, the blonde then instructed X to reciprocate the favour.  Naked, the blonde boasted a large erect penis, saying "now take it in your mouth,"  He obliged, his love-making recorded 24 frames a second on celluloid.  The male prostitute was hired, Tatum says, from a bar in New York and killed the same evening.
 
Two weeks later, X - wholly unaware of the events of that evening - was visited in Nicaragua.  He was presented with a copy of the video footage along with instructions.  Tatum says that X can never allow that video to be seen… "Not only does it reveal his homosexuality, but it also reveals his bestiality and satanic worship rituals."  As frame after frame flicked by, X wept, forced to watch himself kill and gut his homosexual lover, and then eat the still warm heart.  Neutralised, Mr X became a leading member of the Nicaraguan government a few short weeks later.


 

Michael




Post 19

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 8:19pmSanction this postReply
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Who wrote that, David Icke?

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