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Post 120

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 5:16amSanction this postReply
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Mr Postema,  you are still ARE very much a legend.
Thank you, Louise.  You are more than kind.

Andy


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Post 121

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 5:34amSanction this postReply
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Sarah, 
... you're not earning points in my book.
 What makes you think I want to earn points from you?

Let's get to the bottom of this, sweetheart.  Instead of asking me a straightforward question in the anti-gouging thread, you played games with me.  As your patsy I answered you in good faith.  You then twisted my words around to manufacture a contradiction.  Poking some fun at you, I started a new thread to point out why you were wrong.  I also made clear my apologies to you if I was wrong to think your paraphrasing of me was anything other than an honest mistake.

You didn't take the graceful exit I left you.  Instead you claimed a grievance against me.  Setting aside the fact that I would have never had anything to say to you except the "clever dick" word game you started with me, I unconditionally apologized to you.  You forgave me, except that you couldn't quite do that.  You made sure to add a sting to your apparent forgiveness.

So, once again I ask you, why do you bother with me?  Why put out a forgiveness you didn't intend?  What good is it unless you are genuinely willing to let go of your grievance?  If you have anger you aren't ready to relinquish, then don't put words of forgiveness out there.  They are false.  They do me no good.  More important, they do you no good, because they trap you in contradiction.  If you want to be angry, annoyed, pissed off, or something less than pleased with me, then do that.  That's honest, and it's no skin off my nose.

Andy

P.S. And yes, I still love you as much as my buddy Scott.


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Post 122

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 5:54amSanction this postReply
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Sarah,
Please let Andy have the last word on this.  It seems to mean a whole lot to him.  Then we can move on to something more constructive.
Thanks,
Glenn


Post 123

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 6:54amSanction this postReply
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Glenn,

Thanks for sticking up for my fragile ego.  You're a peach of a guy.

Andy


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Post 124

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

You're an ass.

Sarah

(Edited by Sarah House
on 9/09, 7:03am)


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Post 125

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 7:13amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

Now that the acrimony is at an end (hopefully), I would like to be precise. You wrote to Sarah:
I unconditionally apologized to you. 
That's not precise at all. You said you had been joking all along and apologized for the jokes, not for the insults. Sort of a half-assed apology, not an unconditional apology, but an apology nonetheless.

I let it slide. She didn't.

This is not an attack. Just an observation to keep things precise.

Michael


Post 126

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 7:24amSanction this postReply
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Jeff:

"I am high-strung, intense, driven, constantly searching, inclined to pessimism (which I struggle against daily), and generally think the world went to hell roughly around 1965. (Though of course the roots go back much further, and the beginnings of a renaissance seem to be underway.) It requires a perpetual philosophical reminder to avoid becoming a cynic."

No wonder I like you. I AM YOU!

Sarah (to Andy):

"You're an ass."

No, he is a pomo Saddamite old woman limp dick wanker clever dick jackass.

Post 127

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 8:16amSanction this postReply
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You're an ass.
Excellent!  Let it all out, girl.  I'll take an honest expression of disgust with me over phony forgiveness any day.

Andy


Post 128

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 8:30amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

I take your point.  Let me clarify.  I did not make one of those weasely apologies in which someone says he is sorry if he has caused you grief.  I acknowledged the grief I caused and apologized for it without reservation.  I explained what I did, not to say the grief wasn't legitimate, but to identify the truth:  I intended no ill will.

I do have sharp corners that can cut others when I'm not being careful.  Because I know that about myself and can't assume others do, I take responsibility for it.  I am glad that you and Kat found it in your hearts to cut me slack on that.  And, as odd as it may sound, I am glad that Sarah has chosen to express herself honestly about me rather than offer forgiveness she really didn't want to give.  I suspect she thought I was an ass all along when she began playing word games with me.  I much prefer her to be forthright in her feelings about me, like you were.

I like her better for it.

Andy


Post 129

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 8:33amSanction this postReply
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No, [Andy] is a pomo Saddamite old woman limp dick wanker clever dick jackass.
Scott, you're making swoon with these love notes.  However, I cannot honestly take credit for being a post-modernist or a Saddamite.  So we might not be the match made in heaven you are hoping for.

Andy


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Post 130

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 8:40amSanction this postReply
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Pomo

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Post 131

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 9:06amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

I still get the feeling that the apology issue is being talked around and not talked about.

To me, an unconditional apology is when someone says "I made a mistake, sorry. I will do my best to see that it does not happen again."

Period.

I hear you loud and clear saying, "I have all these wonderful macho virtues that are not always understood by others, and I'm so sorry that you did not understand them."

This is given in the context of rationalizations about "weasely apologies," the sentiments of others and what not.

I see no real responsibility being assumed by you for making a mistake, but as I said, at least it was an apology of some sort. That's a start and at least a gesture. And as I also said, I let it ride.

Think about it, though. It takes a man to apologize for real, not a macho.

(The same goes for a woman with female words.)

Michael

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Post 132

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

I give up.  I deal with you honestly, and you want to assign malevolence to me.  There's nothing more I can say to you.

Andy


Post 133

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 10:33amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

Benevolence is not beneficence. I genuinely forgave you for unintentionally being an ass (or "a pomo Saddamite old woman limp dick wanker clever dick jackass") to me. I accepted the apology you gave, which, as Michael said, was not for the words, but the intentions.

You insult me with these accusations of disingenuousness.

Sarah

Post 134

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 10:51amSanction this postReply
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I like womanish, bag of shit! 

Hey, this IS fun!

Andy, I cracked open another dictionary and found yet another definition of womanish. Shall I post it for you? No?

Just as well. I need to get back to my ignorance, because it IS bliss you know!


gw


Post 135

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 11:01amSanction this postReply
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Gary,
Andy, I cracked open another dictionary and found yet another definition of womanish. Shall I post it for you? No?
Sure, if you like.  What good that would do you, I'm not sure.  What may be lost upon you is the concept of a word's connotation.  Find a dictionary like the OED that is pretty thorough in conveying the connotation of a word by citing examples of its usage, then we may be onto something.  Of course, that would mean finding a usage of "womanish" that lacks a negative connotation to make your point.

Good luck.

Andy


Post 136

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 11:05amSanction this postReply
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Sarah,
You insult me with these accusations of disingenuousness.
To pick a nit, you really can't be insulted by the truth.  You have been disingenuous with me from the start.  You even admitted that your initial questions to me had a purpose other than what they appeared to have.  I only warmed up to you when you honestly expressed what you thought of me.  I like that Sarah a lot more than the one who plays games.

But I really do not want to continue annoying you.  So, I'll pester you no more.

Andy


Post 137

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 11:17amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

If your only concept of honesty is being a bitch then I won't play your game anymore.

Sarah

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Post 138

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 11:49amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

For a person who thinks psychology is womanish, you sure psychologize others up a storm.

Michael


Edit - btw - Where did I attribute you with any malice? I am going for precision and let the facts fall where they may.
(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 9/09, 11:57am)


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Post 139

Friday, September 9, 2005 - 12:39pmSanction this postReply
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"To pick a nit, you really can't be insulted by the truth."

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

Pomo arigato, Mr. Pomo-ato

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