About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Forward one pageLast Page


Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 40

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 8:08amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Adam Reed wrote:
We are all RANDIANS now.
OK, that sounds good to me, Adam!

Now, can I also be an Aristotelian? I really like that guy's ideas, too, even though I don't agree with every one of his ideas either!

Best,
REB





Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 41

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 11:41amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Philip, you are right, there is everywhere.

I have a theory about this...Solo is a great place, to be sure, but it's not the only option. I think some people may be treating SOLO like a secure job; they may have problems with the site, but are afraid to leave, the same way some people stay in abusive relationships, careers, or even countries. They may have serious problems with each, but the prospect of leaving and starting over or the loss of a familiar routine are simply too much, and rationalizations are made: ("sure, things get heated, but it's not all bad..." "It's a steady paycheck..." "He hits me, but he loves me, you don't know him like I do").

"Where else is there to go?"
Common refrain of battered wives and disgruntled employees.

The truth is that SOLO is a great place, and to those who know it, maybe it is worth the abuse. No one is forcing anyone to stay. But there is an element of intimidation against leaving, as well. "We don't need you." "Where else are you going to go?" "You'll be back." "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Sounds like a typical workplace or disgruntled lover.

Solo is great, but it should not become a Babylon, either. Solo is more like America, big and diverse, and contains too many viewpoints to be able to function as a one-size fits all type of place. Eventually, there will be competition, and SOLO will become one more site, and people will not have to choose either/or; you can bounce from Barnes and Noble to Borders to your local independent to Amazon, and the same will happen with Objectivist outlets.

The only way SOLO will flourish is if it competes in the marketplace. It's blown away TOC and ARI, yet it will not be the final word.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 8/02, 12:52pm)




Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 42

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 12:52pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
"SOLO... It's blown away TOC and ARI." [Joe]

Well, I don't know about that. At this point Solo is little more than a talkfest venue, one with very real soap opera and ill will and self-destructive and nastiness problems and an ongoing loss of exactly the people who could cause positive change. On top of which it is very tiny. [It does have a better magazine than the past Navigator, but then anything would have been better. And who reads either one other than the already converted? ]

Measured objectively rather than emotionally - by advancing Objectivism or making it better known or understood - the ONLY successful broad scale Objectivist organization right now is ARI (not counting various websites limited in their purpose or successfully occupying a niche, such as the Atlasphere).

And it makes mistakes and does counterproductive things and is not as successful as NBI once was (in its period of exponential growth and courses and a newsletter and a book service and educating Objectivists in a hundred cities by the tens of thousands). But ARI has a number of highly successful projects, including the "books in the classroom" and the academic training in Objectivism and the placement of Objectivists professors in top universities.

TOC, with its once most promising projects - Atlas Society, Logical Structure of Objectivism - either dead or stalled, has as yet had no comparable impact. With perhaps the exception of Ed Hudgins's public media appearances. It's Objectivists talking to a very small group of the already converted each summer and in the pages of their magazine. And without actually systematically and thoroughly training or developing them or increasing the level of their knowledge of their philosophy. I'm assuming Ed H. knows he has to change all this and shake things up fairly radically - making The Objectivist Center increasingly known, respected, and influential - and that he doesn't have an unlimited time. The first year that a manager is in a new job is always crucial.

I strongly suspect the problem was David Kelley. He seems an intellectual to his fingertips rather than a manager and should never have been the person to run an organization that needs such a wide range of business, personality, organizational, leadership, and strategic planning skills in one person. A very valuable person, but only in the right slot. He only fell into the role of leading an organization because he was booted out of the orthodox movement. It wasn't an original career choice.

[Aside] He should be single-mindedly finishing his book ... as long as he's on the TOC payroll. Why isn't he? Why is he reportedly researching Islam and other current affairs issues, when Bernard Lewis and others have that field covered? A full draft has existed and been posted to the web for years. There is a lot of excellent material in the LSO draft already. And he's got Will to help him (Thomas, not Shakespeare). I do realize that getting Objectivism between the pages of a book is a large challenge. But even Peikoff finished OPAR eventually (although only the ghost of Ayn Rand and his ex-wives know why it took 12 years). And once LP did it, that makes the next attempt to cover the same ground easier.

I think I read somewhere that productivity is a virtue. I could be mistaken.

[this last remark applies broadly to the Objectivist organizations in general, not to David.]

Phil



Post 43

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 1:08pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Well, if you want to be technical about it...;)

That bit was my opinion, since I don't even look at those websites anymore.



Post 44

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 1:22pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Phil,

You're right that ARI has been fairly productive recently, although I haven't had much contact with the principals. It's something about the threat of getting kicked out for speaking your mind and the lack of scientific literacy within their ranks that's always been a disincentive to me. Also, the whole Reisman thing where I knew some of the people tangentially involved. I think they've probably fixed some of these things, but I've never seen an ARI principal admit to being wrong, unless it was to make Ayn Rand look good.

Jim




Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 45

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 2:05pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Phil Coates wrote:
I think I read somewhere that productivity is a virtue. I could be mistaken.
You're close.

Productiveness is a virtue. Productivity is the physical manifestation of that virtue. So, for instance, one may work virtuously on a book on Objectivism for 12 years, yet have nothing to show for it in completed physical form.

One may also have gotten a great deal of one's productiveness into completed physical form, but that form is still relatively less useful than it could be. E.g., lecture after lecture that exists only in taped form, not transcribed and published for critical and in-depth study. That, IMO, is one of the great shortcomings of the ARI and TOC approaches to disseminating Objectivism. If, perish forbid, there is some day a postmortem on the entire Objectivist movement, I would expect that this failure to get lecture materials, warts and all, into print would have been a major factor in Objectivism's failure to flourish.

Best to all,
REB




Post 46

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 4:29pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I will temper what I said in post 44 by acknowledging that ARI does a good job training philosophers, teaching in general, and block and tackle activism.

Jim




Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 47

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 5:56pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm also thinking ARI has kind of an unfair advantage.  Seriously, go to a Borders, pick up a copy of Atlas Shrugged  and look for the little insert "For more information please contact the Ayn Rand Institute."

Basically I don't know of anyone who even discovered TOC, Solo, Reason, or anything else like that before having read the sort of "required reading" for Objectivism.

Granted Peikoff has legal control of printing of Rand's materials so this will probably always be the case, at least until there become more "starting points" to draw new people in.

---Landon




Post 48

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 6:32pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Roger Bissell wrote:
One may also have gotten a great deal of one's productiveness into completed physical form, but that form is still relatively less useful than it could be. E.g., lecture after lecture that exists only in taped form, not transcribed and published for critical and in-depth study.  That, IMO, is one of the great shortcomings of the ARI and TOC approaches to disseminating Objectivism.
It also suggests the need to disseminate Objectivism in ways that show practically how to apply the theory in daily living.  I am attempting to do this via the SOLO Florida page with mixed results.  Some people love it and others do not.  In any case, if you have suggestions for making local clubs better in this regard, please post to the SOLO Clubs Forum.




Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 49

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 6:50pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Landon,

Peikoff (and, after him, whoever inherits control of the Estate of Ayn Rand) will be able to put advertisements for ARI in Rand's books until the copyrights expire.  Since the political tendency in the United States has been to push back the expiration dates on copyrights, that may not be for a while. 

A copyright expert could tell us: If the current law remains in force, will Rand's copyrights expire in 2032 (50 years after her death)?  Or in 2057?  I haven't kept up.

Robert Campbell

PS. Under the system that was in effect for most of Rand's lifetime (28 years, renewable for another 28), the American copyright to The Fountainhead would have been over in 1999 and the copyright to Atlas Shrugged would have ended its run in 2013.




Post 50

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 6:55pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I don't know about the "Big Two" but from what I heard Anthem is public domain now so if TOC or SOLO or someone else wanted to try publishing a version of Anthem like that it may be possible.

---Landon




Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 51

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 6:09amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Landon,

TOC has taken advantage of the copyright lapse on Anthem.  We have produced a complete and unabriged CD version of it.

http://www.objectivismstore.com/pc-34-1-anthem-audiotape.aspx

We have previously had some negotiatons about publishing it, but haven't been successful.

At the TOC summer seminar Kerry O'Quinn spoke about his current efforts to make Anthem into a movie.  I didn't attend his talk because I had another one to attend at the time, but his talk will be available on TOC live shortly.

Bill

(Edited by Bill Perry on 8/03, 6:09am)




Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 52

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 6:19amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Roger Bissell wrote:
One may also have gotten a great deal of one's productiveness into completed physical form, but that form is still relatively less useful than it could be. E.g., lecture after lecture that exists only in taped form, not transcribed and published for critical and in-depth study.  That, IMO, is one of the great shortcomings of the ARI and TOC approaches to disseminating Objectivism.
At the TOC summer seminar a Patron joined a few of us sitting at a dining hall table and asked for suggestions on making TOC more effective. I believe the first thing mentioned was getting things in printed form. It certainly was the dominant thing, and agreement was unanimous. Hence, TOC has been delivered the message. Also, Ed Hudgens and/or Bill Perry may read this one.




Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 53

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 6:27amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Merlin,

At the last Board of Trustees meeting which was Ed Hudgins's first as executive director he had several of us bring in boxes of tapes to show the board the rich variety of materials that we have which should be resurrected and marketed either as audio or in written form.  Ed fully agrees that we need more books and written material.  Resources to prepare them in the proper form, such as hiring transcriptionists, paying the speakers to review or rewrite the materials, and money to publish them is the problem.

We have been well aware of this potential before the summer seminar or this thread.

Bill




Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 54

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 8:53amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Bill,

I find it encouraging that TOC's leadership is planning to step up the TOC publication program.

The Journal of Ayn Rand Studies has published a number of articles based on talks that were given at IOS/TOC Summer Seminars and Advanced Seminars.   But there is a substantial backlog of such material that is worthy of publication--more than we would be able to handle at JARS.
 
Robert Campbell




Post 55

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 9:17amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Bill,

Thanks for explaining/providing feedback about the audio vs. written material issue.

Phil



Post 56

Monday, August 8, 2005 - 8:10pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Bill,

I proudly own a copy of said audio recording. Good job. And I completely forgot about it.

Sounds like a great start overall.

---Landon

(Edited by Landon Erp on 8/08, 8:12pm)




Post 57

Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 8:57pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm the webmaster of FreedomCircle.com which has about a dozen links to TDO pages, mostly Hero of the Day articles, and seven links to FullContext.org (at it's temporary home at IP 209.197.94.171), mostly interviews. I was in the process of adding more links when both sites disappeared.

I'd be glad to host the TDO Hero of the Day and FC interview material at my site (and maybe even more), but I have been unable to reach anyone connected with those websites. I sent an email to David M. Brown, based on the TDO entry in the ORC What Happened To? page, but I haven't heard back. I do not know who CJ is, mentioned by Joshua as the founder of TDO. If anyone has any leads or contacts, please let me know. Thanks.

Joe



Post 58

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 6:25pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
David Brown did respond and gave me permission to reprint the TDO Hero of the Day pages, with due credit, so I'll be pursuing that, using the Wayback Machine--so it will take a while. Since I found the TDO home page, I see now who CJ is.

I also found the Full Context interviews index so those may be retrievable too, assuming Karen and William Minto also approve. If someone knows how get in touch with them, please let me know.

Joe



Post 59

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 3:29amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks Joe for doing this! You are resurrecting some of my favorite resources!!

Jim




Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Forward one pageLast Page
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.