RoR: Forum

You want a real self-help book? Find a book that fosters your interests and learning. Find a book on how to play an instrument. Go to the technology section and study science, or car repair, or go to the home section and get a gardening book or home design book. Like cooking? There are many books available to get you started. You'll spend less time in agony over your failings and more time developing a self you can be proud of.

I wholeheartedly agree. People tend to do better when they have skills to acquire and tangible problems to solve than when they talk about their subjective confabulations all day. I recall reading, for example, where some psychologists have concluded that people suffering from post traumatic stress disorder would do better not to recount on a regular basis the events that damaged them, especially in therapy. Remembering such things just reinforces the neural pathways that cause the physical illnesses they suffer.

Post 1

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:19pm

Thanks for the great review. This sounds like an interesting book.

Post 2

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:22pm

Jeff-
Hate to break into a thread, but while I've caught you on-line I want to thank you for the great job you did in getting everyone's photos updated.

Post 3

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 2:27am

That was Dale Carnegie, not Andrew... who wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People, and numbers afterwards... one could subtitle it - 'how to be like Peter Keating'...

Post 4

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 5:00am

Joe Maurone wrote in his review:

John Gray of VENUS AND MARS fame supposedly had a primarily female audience in mind in his attempt to feminize men. Indeed, Salerno questions the results of this gender-neutralization, with gender neutral play for boys stressing non-violence and "sharing your feelings" by crying.

Amen! I have had it with the endless streams of books that encourage women to emasculate men. For an antidote, get Being a Man in a Woman's World by Dennis Neder.

Post 5

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 6:08am

While not a "violent NO! flung in the face of the world", I do have to step aside and disagree with some of this so far.

First, the self-help industry is a result of the spread of Objectivism and the acceptance of self-centered values. The wierdos are to us as "Holy Roller" Pentacostals are to Roman Catholicism -- a bit far from the syllogisms of Aquinas, but sharing the essential basics. The Me Decade the Greed Decade, the Reagan Revolution, and the Self-Help industry all blossomed as Objectivism became a mainstream doctrine. (Some Objectivists do not like being accepted because they prefer martyrdom, but the facts remain immutable.)

Second, the individuality of individuals is the reason that there are so many schools of self-help, including Objectivism. Different people respond to different messages at different times in their lives. The assertion that everyone would be a lot happier if they just accepted the ideas of Ayn Rand is an insult to the ideas of Ayn Rand. SOLO's new project manager thinks she's a witch. What would Ayn Rand say to that? Individuals differ, by definition. So, it does not surprise me that there are so many self-help books out there. I wonder why there are not more. Perhaps someday soon, we will see meta-selfhelp books, guides to being your own helper. Maybe such products already exist.

Third, I agree that the Mars-Venus thing was marketed to women. When I read the first one, it was pretty clear that there was no reciprocity. "Look, he just wants to solve your problems because he hates seeing you suffer. Take your partner's advice and tell your boss to go fuck himself!" The lack of reciprocity does not invalidate the initial premise.

Also, I find it pretty funny that a group of homosexuals is afraid of being feminized -- I thought that New Enlightenment Men were in touch with their whatevers. Furthermore, it is perhaps not unusual that square-jawed het Luke Setzer fears emasculation by women.

I agree with Mark Plus that wallowing in misery does not get you over it. Ignoring it won't make it go away, but at some point, you have to leave it behind. Self-help groups become pity parties. I heard on NPR last week, the same advice that Mark Plus cited. Some law enforcement and public safety psychologists who work with traumatized police and others say that dwelling on an incident only makes it worse.

The bottom line is that the self-help industry, like any business depends on repeat customers.

Post 6

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 6:13am

There is no bigger or better self-help cult than Objectivism. Lost, alienated, feeling special and yet feeling picked on, these sad little people decide that in a "rational world" they would have been great industrialists and inventors, proteans and promethians who were denied their chance because of the evil mysticist-altruist-collectivist conspiracy of big government liberals. But! There is hope!

Yes, you, too, can tap your potential! You can objectively identify your rational self-interest and make yourself the person you always wanted to be! Only twenty-four ninety five, this amazing book and its supporting set of instructional tapes explain how to know when A is A, how to differentiate between abstractions -- how to powerfully abstract abstractions into wider and wider concepts! -- yes, you can resist the demands of other people -- and you can rationally convince them to see your point of view! Listen to this:

"I was elected to the Sunny River School board when I applied the Basic Principles of Objectivism." -- Sally Ironsmith, Port Island, Iowa.

"Objectivism made my business a success!" -- Dr. Seth Lippschitz, former research scientist, James Fiske University, now, CEO of "Mynde-Worx Technologies."

"As an artist, I learned the value of self-esteem in expressing ideas that other people want to buy. Objectivism made me a trader and with the profits from my first sale, I bought this gold coin." -- Dale Jackson, artist.

But don't act yet! Just look at what else you'll receive! ...

Post 7

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 10:57am

Robert, duly noted and corrected, thankee.

Michael, sweetie, dear, darling, honey...lol. Sorry, I can never pull that off, even as a joke! There is a difference between men being in touch with their feelings and such, and surrendering their manhood. (Their was an episode of FAMILY GUY where the father, a crude, oafish pig, has to attend sensitivity training at work, and comes home acting like a woman. His wife likes it at first, then longs for him to be a man again.)
As for being gay and feminine, c'mon...

As for Objectivism and the self-help movement...yes, I thought about that, and can't deny a connection. I think, though, that it was more the influence of Nathaniel and NBI than any aspirations Rand had to being a guru. Rand was more interested in portraying her ideal man than running a business. To the extent that she did have self-help ideas (a philosophy for living on earth), they were a secular alternative to religion and statism, the original "self-help"
scams. The danger comes when the would be guru wants to perpetuate the need for their services, or centralize their ideals. It shouldn't be What Would Jesus Do?, or What Would Roark Do?, or What Would Dr. Phil Say?.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 9/25, 10:57am)

Post 8

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 12:41pm

That's what she kept pointing out - "...the understood, not the commanded..."...

Post 9

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:33am

Reminds me of a book entitled How to Read a Book (Adler) which a reviewer stated needed another book entitled How to Read a Book Titled How to Read a Book.

--Brant

Post 10

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:26am

Unix for Dummies was the only self-help book I've ever read.

Post 11

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:40am

The self-help movement was bound to mushroom head and keep rolling like it did, and when it did. It might be the broadest entrepreneurial opportunity in the history of the populus entertainment business.

There was, from the beginning, virtually no barrier-to-entry, once it hit critical mass.

I believe the vertical logarithmic curve was hit somewhere in the early-to-mid '70's. It continues to be painful to watch the gyrations, particularly those in the area of materials that supposedly teach or incorporate work on self-esteem- the very simple, but crucial definition that Nathaniel Branden brought forward was, generally, lost in the shuffle.

There are useful materials in the field, but you have to sort through so much doo doo that it becomes more of a time issue than anything; at least for the neophyte.

If anything, better work generally seems to be more available in the subcategory of business. But even there, sheez. Hustling hustlers is prevalent.

Like most things, there are basic principles. The key is to not only find out what those principles are, but the significance of the principles, and in what sequence one strings them together. Instead, we have the core equivalent , the core problem,of people starting out reading ethics, without knowing that metaphysics exist. This does not even get to the question of which metaphysics.

This is one reason why they can put out so many books on martial arts: there are countless ways to repackage and represent basic principles. Unless suddenly there becomes a prevalence of men who have more than two arms and two legs, the principles themselves do not change.

The level of cross-breeding, in-breeding, and all-around mutation is beyond even what has happened in the record industry.

Possibly, the most disturbing aspect within all of this is the area of "cults", to be sure. Spend a little bit of time on Rick Ross' cult watch site (www.rickross.com) and you see this.

Post 12

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:00am

Enjoyed reading the review, although it did not whet my appetite to read the book. The reference to John Gray reminded me of an article I read a few years ago in a psychology journal called "The two Johns".
The article compared John Gray to John Gottman. Gottman, the author explained, is a true scientist in that his conclusions are based on an Immense body of empirical research. (Recently, Malcolm Gladwell cited Gottman extensivelly in Blink.) Gray, on the other hand has a non-accredited mail order PHD and is only allowed to counsel "patients" by virtue (italics mine) of the fact that he is an ordained monk in the state of California

Post 13

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 10:27am

Well, you can't fool all the people all the time - Grey's TV show bombed a few years ago...

Post 14

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 10:53am

You cannot generalize about "the self-help movement".

There is no such entity. There are only good writers on psychology and introspection and breaking bad psychoepistemological habits... and bad writers on the same subjects.

You have to actually look into each one. No sweeping dismissals. Or endorsements.

Post 15

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:26pm

Phil,

You cannot generalize about "the self-help movement".

I think you can. The point made by Mark and Matthew is salient. Self-help as a process is navel-gazing. What do you really need to know about improving yourself other than get off your dead ass and do something? ;-) It is self-help in action - gaining objective knowledge (e.g., philosophy, science, history) and a skill (e.g., judo, programming, auto repair) - that is genuine self-improvement.

Andy

Post 16

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:27pm

Phil, it's hard to deny the existence of a self-help movement when it has it's own category on many Bestseller lists.
And if it's not a movement, it's certainly an industry.

Post 17

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 1:23pm

It's certainly easier to observe from an industry perspective. We're not talking about what self-help is. That's like asking what the record industry is.
It's certainly not limited to navel-gazing, although I have no doubt that somewhere, probably in California, is some rocket scientist who made a respectable profit by teaching someone how to do it. Maybe even how to clean it so it doesn't stink while you're staring at it.

Often, a person that goes looking for self-help books in the self-help or personal growth section of the bookstore or library is, in fact, getting off their ass and doing something. It can amount to a very significant step. Sometimes, it ends up making a huge difference even if they read what I might consider to be, well, diluted, or maybe even outright crap.

It is pointless to discount the entire field. For instance, a person who knows nothing about anxiety might go to the bookstore and find something that helps them. It might be about meditation, which is a valid thing to read about. Even crappy books about meditation can teach basic breathing techniques.

One problem (there are many) is that the mousetrap keeps getting repackaged and resold under different guises. But that's just marketing, I guess.

Dynamic visualization (or image therapy, if you prefer) is a good example. It's easily taught- for instance, it's known that bloodflow is one of the easiest functions to learn how to control. And yes, you can control it. But, instead of just doing that, what you might find is some big production number of a book. The bullshit factor is off the charts.

The most dangerous kind of bullshitter is one who actually believes their own bullshit. This is what rolls a cult.

Post 18

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 3:28pm

Rich,
Ok, even though I've limited interest in the subject these days ... I'll bite. How can it be anything but dangerous to control one's own bloodflow?

Jeff

Post 19

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 4:09pm