[an error occurred while processing this directive]
About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1


Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 20

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 5:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Excuse me, Rick, but exactly who here is acting like a demon-ridden Shakespearean Vulcan? The letter from 'Overeducated' seemed perfectly down-to-earth to me, and to my wife. If your objection was to my wording, please keep in mind that I was trying to do three things:

1. Express my anger in as polite a manner as possible.
2. Convince the columnist to re-examine her position.
3. Get the letter published where the general public is likely to see it.

Not everybody is like Peter Cresswell, who can shift verbal gears to fit his audience. Not all of us have that talent, and some of us have different talents. No doubt Overeducated had more important (to him) skills to learn, like how to save lives in an emergency.

By suggesting that Overeducated see a psychologist you (and the columnist) are seeing defects where none have been shown to exist. All we know of Overeducated is the letter he wrote to the column. As such, neither the columnist nor we are qualified to state that Overeducated needs a psychologist's services. Seeing a psychologist may well make Overeducated unnecessarily insecure.

We have a culture where popular movies like Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone can contain dialogue such as "Books! And cleverness! There are important things...". There is more to the dialogue than that, but taken out of context such words can be used as a blatant encouragement of anti-intellectualism. We have enough of that shit in our society; why encourage more of it by telling somebody with two college degrees to see a shrink because co-workers are intimidated by him and he hasn't found the right woman?



Post 21

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 6:54pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
With all due respect, Rick, it's an all-too real problem. Matt, you did well. (I suppose I should dumb it down and say, "You dun good..."...



Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Post 22

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 8:52pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

I’ve actually got a different view on this and I tend to agree with Rick.

 

We don’t know the full context around “Overeducated” and this is all just further speculation, but it seems he has two problems: a). perceived reaction to his “two bachelor of arts degrees”; and b). that his “genius IQ” “shows when he talks.” (The two aren’t necessarily related.)

 

Dealing with them individually, frankly, “two bachelor of arts degrees” is not that impressive. And I’m curious as to how people actually discover this fact about him. He claims he’s not pompous and that he doesn’t volunteer his “overeducation”, but perhaps he initiates conversation topics at a level over the heads of people who don’t have “two bachelor of arts degrees”? Maybe that prompts them to ask? (“How do I know all this stuff? Oh, I have bachelors of arts degrees in ancient mythology and modern philosophy.”)

 

I don’t think “society” ordinarily does have a problem with someone having “two bachelor of arts degrees”, especially not the United States. So Abby is right to speculate that it’s not “society’s fault” … it’s probably his. You might strike tall poppyism in a more egalitarian culture, like New Zealand, but as someone with a business degree, postgrad arts degree, and a genius IQ (I can say that here … we’re all Objectivists J), it’s never been a problem for me, in either my business or romantic lives. In fact, the most common response I get towards my history degree is genuine interest and curiosity. The number of people who’ve been “intimidated” or put off by my qualifications is precisely zero. And I’m sure most others here with more impressive credentials would say the same thing. So maybe it’s just him?

 

In a way, there’s a parallel here with Robert’s excellent comment on the Stylized Life thread regarding people who are all “intelligence” and no spirit. I think it’s more likely that “Overeducated” has a problem expressing himself; the classic EQ/IQ dichotomy. A true sign of intelligence is being astute enough to identify the personal context, or “wavelength”, of another person and relate to them accordingly. The way you talk to a professor of history in an academic context should be different to the way you talk to a beautician in a personal context. (No offence to either profession!) A person with a “genius IQ” should (would?) learn from his experiences and adapt his behavior. And, frankly, a person with a “genius IQ” shouldn’t (wouldn’t?) be writing to ‘Dear Abby’ to solve his problems.

(Edited by Glenn Lamont on 11/01, 8:57pm)




Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 23

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 9:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I work for a newspaper and I will tell you this nonetheless: People who go to newspapers for "advice," or otherwise revel in the dirt of others, will undoubtedly find Abby's response comforting. It affirms what they've been taught and reinforced their whole lives: People of superior talent, intellect and ability are "no different than me." We all shit sitting down, right? Only their focus is on the shit, not the genius who invented the toilet. Fuck these egalitarian, feel-good, "popular wisdom" motherfuckers. Right on, Matthew!



Post 24

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 9:33pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
     Given the acceptance of what the letter-writer said as true (which, obviously, what 'Abby' was doing), then, accepting as a fact that his supervisor complained to him re what his co-worker complained about to his supervisor, it seems a bit...unfairly silly...to focus 'blame' (showing a need-to-change) on the letter writer, rather than the others.

      His co-worker and supervisor were self-advertising "Why can't you just 'get along' with others?" ass-holes.

      'Abby's siding with them, well, conclude for yourself.

      Way to go, Matthew...pointless as it all no doubt was (well, maybe she did think about your letter...differently than some present contrarians to you; I'll grant that possibility.)

LLAP
J:D

P.S: This is the 'daughter' "Abby", right? Her mother often was mixed in sensible vs silly advice, if memory serves. I haven't read the column for...well, a while.




Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 25

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 10:34pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Not saying the mentality ain't out there, I'm saying this one is not a legitimate siting.

 With all due respect, Rick, it's an all-too real problem.

And real enough without having to....the 'horror file' is doing quite well on its own without making things up! Hells bells! If we're not reading problems into instances where there are none we're retreading old opinions from the Ayn Rand lexicon! People who are only good with hammers see every problem as a nail. Don't we have any sharper tools in the SOLO shed that this hammer stuff all the time? That includes the 'Nuc some terrorists? Fuck yeah' line. Give me something new...

 The letter from 'Overeducated' seemed perfectly down-to-earth to me, and to my wife

Well if I'd known I were up against a maternal brains trust...

Not all of us have that talent, and some of us have different talents. No doubt Overeducated had more important (to him) skills to learn, like how to save lives in an emergency.

More important than being a friendless virgin?

By suggesting that Overeducated see a psychologist you (and the columnist) are seeing defects where none have been shown to exist

I think me and my pal-in-print are guilty of less extrapolation in our indictment of one man's habit than you are in your indictment of a whole culture from this one instance.

 We have enough of that shit in our society; why encourage more of it by telling somebody with two college degrees to see a shrink because co-workers are intimidated by him and he hasn't found the right woman?

Why? Because this is the right advice for an individual in this position and that's more important than any 'public responsibility' not to encourage a 'social mentality'. Society can go hang, especially if it bruises so easily as you're making out. 




Sanction: 22, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 22, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 22, No Sanction: 0
Post 26

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 4:40amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Rick, if I continued to argue with you I'd just be repeating myself. So, I'm just going to take Rand's advice, say "I don't agree with you," and leave you alone.



Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 27

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 5:48amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I hate zebra striped posts with mundane comments in the spaces.

Looks like old prison uniforms

Michael





Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 28

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Maybe I'm just too young but I have a hard time believing that the crab bucket mentality is as pervasive as is being claimed here. Yeah, some people tear others down on purpose, but they're not the majority. Glenn made a lot of good points and regardless of Overeducated's intelligence, if he's personable, I doubt the vast majority of people would tear him down.

Sarah



Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Post 29

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 9:04amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

First, the analogy to a bucket of crabs is a poor one for highlighting the ‘tall poppy syndrome.’ I’ve seen crabs and lobsters in containers a hundred times. They’re not trying to pull their brothers back, they don’t even have the brain power for such a thing. They are simply trying to get out of the bucket by crawling over the bridges who are partially out. Pulling the others down is unintended, indeed counter, to their purpose. I’m not writing this to defend crabs, but good analogies.

On the Abby advice, I agree completely with Glenn. Overeducated strikes me as the type who would think people have a problem with wealth because whenever he announces his large wealth on a bus, people seem to have a problem with it.

Jon




Post 30

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 3:48pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
No disrespect Matthew, I just wish you would change your mind.
If we're not reading problems into instances where there are none we're retreading old opinions from the Ayn Rand lexicon!
 
 I'm just going to take Rand's advice, say "I don't agree with you," and leave you alone.

gah!




Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Post 31

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 6:28pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Rick:

Given that both my wife and I considered your crack about the "marital brain trust" rude, and thought your remark about being a "friendless virgin" was un-called for, I am not likely to change my mind. I can think of worse things than being a friendless virgin, having been one myself: I personally think that settling for second-best just to avoid being alone is much worse than being either friendless or untouched. For me, at least, remaining alone and untouched until I found the right woman was worth the wait.
(Edited by Matthew Graybosch
on 11/02, 6:33pm)




Post 32

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 7:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Glenn:

"And, frankly, a person with a “genius IQ” shouldn’t (wouldn’t?) be writing to ‘Dear Abby’ to solve his problems."

"Wouldn't" I think, Glenn, but regardless, you nailed it.

"The way you talk to a professor of history in an academic context should be different to the way you talk to a beautician in a personal context."

Mmm, that's a problematic for me because a) my beautician *has* a history degree, and b) I don't have much hair. Consequently, for me to feel like I'm getting value for money we have to discuss ancient Rome while she pokes away at my minimal locks.

Good to see you back, Glenn. I though you'd found Galt's Gulch and didn't want to give it away :-)

Ross



Post 33

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 9:00amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Matthew identified:
I personally think that settling for second-best just to avoid being alone is much worse than being either friendless or untouched. For me, at least, remaining alone and untouched until I found the right woman was worth the wait.
Amen, brother!  Hear, hear!  This world would be a much better place if all adopted this attitude.  Sanction!




Post 34

Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 1:32pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
If this poor guy "overeducated" was working as an EMT then the problem was definitely with the work culture all too prevalent among EMTs. The best student I knew in college was fired from his EMT job for listing a patient's temperature as 97 degrees, when the convention is to list the temperature rounded to the nearest even number. He had a perfect job record, had evidently stopped some co-workers from making potentially fatal errors, and was universally hated by his co-workers, all of whom had hit their glass ceilings, and all of whom resented the hell out of him.

I also read the column abouit EMT work by Ms. Colon on page two of the Monday NYSUN. Her stories about the actions of other EMTs support this conclusion.

Ted



Post 35

Wednesday, December 5 - 10:20amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Over-generalizations are not helpful.  Yes, some people will resent your success, your health, your good looks, your car, your education, your spouse, your house, your horse...  But most people do not.  Some people will even tolerate the socially inept and over-assertive egotist.  Some people do, indeed, take the better view of the person with fewer virtues.  It all depends on the individuals.

I met a brick wall on several occasions where security managers took one look at me and my degrees and the interview ended before it began.  That cannot be helped. On the other hand, I am unaware of any other colleague or cohort security guard expressing or displaying any resentment toward me... and I know that I can be (ahem) hard to get along with. At least I see myself that way... apparently most other people find me charming... or at least tolerable.  Again, it all depends. 

Pretty much, though, life gives you what you expect from it.

Allow me to pass on one tidbit from popular psychology as applied to "profiling" in public safety: You do not know most other people; you only know yourself. Therefore, people tend to generalize about others from the inside out. (Yes, that, too is a generalization.)




Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1
[an error occurred while processing this directive] [an error occurred while processing this directive]