RoR: Forum

Edit: If anyone knows Radiohead, there is a band that has fallen from a straightforward, great rock band, to a pessimistic, deconstructive, almost nihilistic group (and received many comparisons to Pink Floyd). The albums Kid A, Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief, and to some extent, OK Computer signal their 1984-ish decline into depressing doom.

Agree completely.

Post 101

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 1:09am

Regina wrote:

So nihilists, caterwaulers, whatever they may be considered by some here, they have been with me through some of the most poignant moments of my life.� That is how music weaves itself into the soundtrack of our lives, and for each of us it is a very personal experience.� That such music may not now be in alignment with the rest of our thinking does not diminish the�connection we may still share�with it.

That much I can agree with. When I recognised the fact that I was gay, at age 17, I was away from home, at university. I figured the first thing I had to do was write a letter to my parents, explaining everything to them. It was a gut-wrenching time. The Beatles' Let It Be (not that I regard *them* as headbanging caterwaulers, but they're scarcely my highest musical value) was a hit, playing over & over on the radio. It was inescapable�& struck *such* a chord with my turmoil at the time. I still can't hear it without becoming tearful. The Musos at SOLOC 4 were playing/singing it inside the beach-house while I was outside talking with Barbara. Fortunately, it was dark, & my tears were invisible, so I didn't have to explain them. But they were still there. "There will be an answer, let it be." Oh dear!

Such music can be eloquent & poignant because of circumstances, indeed. But still, the total passion for the total height always beckons. And it never disappoints. I *never* play Let It Be, but I regularly play & joyously conduct the Rach 3!

Linz

Post 102

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:36am

Speaking of exploring music, it occurs to me that I've never heard any of the original music that Linz has composed. Is there a website where I can sample or purchase any? Given his strong opinions as a consumer, I'd be very interested in experiencing his "sense of life" as a creator.

Best,
J

Post 103

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:52am

When I recognised the fact that I was gay, at age 17, I was away from home, at university. I figured the first thing I had to do was write a letter to my parents, explaining everything to them. It was a gut-wrenching time. The Beatles' Let It Be (not that I regard *them* as headbanging caterwaulers, but they're scarcely my highest musical value) was a hit, playing over & over on the radio. It was inescapable�& struck *such* a chord with my turmoil at the time. I still can't hear it without becoming tearful.

Linz, that is the artistic experience. That is the precise purpose of the song (to accept reality for what it is and to then get on with life). Lanza may take you into ecstasy but how much further can a song take you than Let It Be if you get teary-eyed every time you hear it? It's a gospel tune for Objectivists.

Style and medium do not mean a thing artistically. If it moves you it moves you.

Post 104

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 11:25am

Speaking of exploring music, it occurs to me that I've never heard any of the original music that Linz has composed. Is there a website where I can sample or purchase any? Given his strong opinions as a consumer, I'd be very interested in experiencing his "sense of life" as a creator.

Jonathan, if you want to experience Linz' sense of life as a creator, try taking a look through a few of his articles on SOLO or in The Free Radical. Or you could just take a look around the SOLO website you are posting on, since that is also Linz' creation.

Ample evidence, I would have thought, of his qualifications for having strong opinions as a consumer.

Post 105

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 11:36am

Jonathan, if you want to experience Linz' sense of life as a creator, try taking a look through a few of his articles on SOLO or in The Free Radical. Or you could just take a look around the SOLO website you are posting on, since that is also Linz' creation.

Wasn't it clear that I was interested in his role as a creator of ~music~, Tim? Not his passion as a publisher, pundit or politician, but as an ~artist~?

Best,
J

Post 106

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 11:46am

Wasn't it clear that I was interested in his role as a creator of ~music~, Tim? Not his passion as a publisher, pundit or politician, but as an ~artist~?

Yes, and wasn't it clear that I regard the implication that Linz is unfit state strong opinions because he is a mere consumer rather than an ~artist~ as ridiculous, and worse, as a sneer?

Post 107

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 12:17pm

I don�t know Jonathan. If he is an asshole, never mind. But, I didn�t sense any sneering in his post #102, nor any implication that Linz is unfit�rather that he IS fit, thus the desire to hear some. He just seems genuinely interested.

Jon

Post 108

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 12:26pm

Ok, the real point is, Linz wrote music? For real? Is this true, Linz, can we hear it?

Post 109

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 12:39pm

Jon & Joe, it wasn't a genuine enquiry. He has pulled the same stunt before, such as here and here.

Post 110

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 1:09pm

I forgot about those, Tim.

I get it now.

Post 111

Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 9:02pm

Hrmmm...moving on, then. :(

Post 112

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 12:17am

That there are "people" on this earth driven by such revolting pomo snideness as the coward of Posts 102 & 105, who doesn't present his full name, is a mystery to me. Even more mystifying�what value does such a creature find in being *here*? Something for it to sneer at, I expect. A creepy-crawly slithering around in an oasis.

Linz

Post 113

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 12:31am

It seems strange that Linz would be attacked on a post where he showed a moment of understanding of the power of music that normally doesn't move him. Can't win for losing...

Thank you for sharing that, Linz.

Post 114

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 3:23am

Joe�not a problem. And thanks for speaking up for basic decency.

Lance wrote:

Linz, that is the artistic experience. That is the precise purpose of the song (to accept reality for what it is and to then get on with life). Lanza may take you into ecstasy but how much further can a song take you than Let It Be if you get teary-eyed every time you hear it? It's a gospel tune for�Objectivists.

You'd be amazed how much further a song can take me if it's sung by a singer with a real voice, real intelligence, real musicality & real passion, like Lanza. Doesn't diminish the impact of Let It Be. It's not either/or, just which does it best.

Today at the gym they had some rapper playing. It was excruciatingly, indescribably awful. Ghastly voice, same limited musical motif, monotonous jungle-beat & ugly lyrics, over & over & over & over. While acknowledging anyone's right to enjoy such excrement, I have no hesitation in saying such a person is soul-sick ... sick as the perpetrators of & apologists for such anti-musical maggotry. And its popularity tells me the culture is fucked, generally speaking. I do not resile from this. Here I stand!!

Linz

Post 115

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 9:51am

Today at the gym they had some rapper playing. It was excruciatingly, indescribably awful. Ghastly voice, same limited musical motif, monotonous jungle-beat & ugly lyrics, over & over & over & over. While acknowledging anyone's right to enjoy such excrement, I have no hesitation in saying such a person is soul-sick ... sick as the perpetrators of & apologists for such anti-musical maggotry. And its popularity tells me the culture is fucked, generally speaking. I do not resile from this. Here I stand!!

I agree that they are soul-sick. When I hear this kind of stuff I ask myself, "What the fuck is going on?! This is the worst song I've ever heard in my life."

It's impossible that this music moves them in the same way that Lanza moves you or Bach's Air on a G string moves me. Has so much as one tear been evoked from a rap song? One goose bump?

Then I look back at the history of music and see such classics as Fly Robin Fly, and Convoy and YMCA from the disco era and I understand it better. This nonsense has been going on for 40-50 years. Probably much longer.

I think it's just that purveyors of such music are going for a different experience. They are a short-sighted lot and short-sighted art affirms their metaphysics. And yes, that tells us that the culture is in trouble.

One last point: writing a great song is an endeavor. I know the experience of working hours and hours on a song only to have it turn out laughably bad at the end. Many people can't handle that and so turn to modern technology to ease their pain. Technology today allows us to approximate creative composition with the touch of a few buttons on a keyboard.

Post 116

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 1:53pm

Tim Sturm�thank *you* for speaking out, too. Didn't mean to omit you when when thanking Joe�was just reacting to *his* post. :-)

Linz

Post 117

Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 8:37pm

Jon Letendre wrote:
"But, I didn�t sense any sneering in his post #102, nor any implication that Linz is unfit�rather that he IS fit, thus the desire to hear some. He just seems genuinely interested."

Jon is correct. I was assuming that, with Linz's many references to musical greatness and to his "total passion for the total height," he had been implying something more substantial than his tastes and opinions as a consumer, or even as a performer, of music written by others. As I understand it, Linz has impressive musical skills, and I was sincerely interested in experiencing his passion and height that I assumed (perhaps with inadvertent rudeness) went far beyond making listening choices. "Total height," to me, is creativity, but if Linz doesn't compose music and sees his consumer tastes as the achievement of the total height, I really didn't mean to rain on his parade.

As for Tim Sturm's claim that I had "pulled the same stunt before," I had asked Michael Newberry (in my Post 5 to which Tim posted a link) if he had ever taken part in collaborative creation because I truly wanted to know if he had ever experienced making music with others. If he had, I thought he'd be much more likely to recognize that one needn't sacrifice integrity when collaborating.

And my Post 46 of the same thread had nothing to do with insulting anyone or being snide.

It's interesting that I've been accused of snideness and that I've been demoted to something less than a person by Linz (note the scare quotes around the word "people" in his reference to me). I know of no one on this list who is more snide than Linz. No one expresses as much anger, throws as many tantrums, indulges in as much name calling, is as willing (if not eager) to destroy friendships, or is as insistent on pissing on other people's sources of joy.

What value does this "creepy-crawly creature" find in being here? I find other minds that are interested in sharing ideas and learning, I find people who are generally very intelligent, positive, happy and humorous, and I enjoy seeing the artistic "total passion for the total height" that is exhibited by people like Joe Maurone, Adam Buker, Robert Malcom, Lance Moore, Peter Cresswell and Michael Newberry (and which I apparently rather clumsily expected to find exhibited by Linz).

Sorry for the misunderstandings.

Best,
Jonathan Smith

Post 118

Monday, May 16, 2005 - 2:21am

>> but I regularly play & joyously conduct the Rach 3!

Linz

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Sorry, can you fill me in on this one. Is this the piano concerto? Recommended recording(s)?

I'm new to Rachmaninov (not even 100% sure about the spelling!).

Post 119

Monday, May 16, 2005 - 2:58am