RoR: Forum

I did in fact point out in my SOLOC4 testimony that Barbara was smoking.

I wrote that,

Barbara Branden didn't need to concern herself over cheese, she was too busy taming fire between her fingertips...

http://solohq.org/Forum/SOLOAnnouncements/0022.shtml#13

Either people thought I was joking or they didn't understand the imagery I took from Atlas Shrugged.

I asked her about the smoking and she said that she only smoked one cigarette once in a while.
However, at the conference she preceded to smoke more than one.

What I think may have happened is that when she wrote this article it was true.
Then she lapsed once in a while, but still didn't become a regular smoker. Therefore she didn't think it necessary to announce that she was smoking again.

However, I also know of other smokers that gave up through this book, but after a while started smoking again.

Post 41

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 3:30am

Again, I have no problem with the fact that she smokes, or the fact that she may need help with quitting if that is what she so choses. The problem is when someone promotes a view that the physical addiction does not exist and yet continues to do something. Simply wanted to smoke? C'mon.

It's not my faith in Barbara that's shaken, it's my faith in the power of an individual's rational faculty over external forces.

Post 42

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 3:50am

It's not my faith in Barbara that's shaken, it's my faith in the power of an individual's rational faculty over external forces.

Yes, that's a good point.

However, if they didn't want to smoke in the first place but couldn't stop, then the addiction was not rational in the first place.

On the other hand, if they can go from chain-smoking to a few cigarettes a day with no side effects, I think that is also an accomplishment.

Post 43

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:41am

>On the other hand, if they can go from chain-smoking to a few cigarettes a day with no side effects, I think that is also an accomplishment.

I go fairly effortlessly from smoking more than a pack each day to not smoking at all. I don't think it is a physical addiction for me, although I certainly enjoy it. Once in a while, I hear myself wheeze, or notice that my teeth don't look white enough, or my chest hurts, or my clothes smell, and I just decide not to smoke. I typically finish the pack I am into and then just don't buy any more. I stop for a week, a month, six months, whatever. It doesn't make me have headaches or bad physical symptoms. I mostly notice some boredom in the car, because I drive a lot for work and that is one time I tend to smoke a lot.

After a while, though - almost always in the evening when I am sitting on the porch before bedtime - I will think I would like a cigarette. And I generally go get a pack. Sometimes I smoke a few and that's all I want. Sometimes I start smoking again.

I like smoking. I worry - of course - about the effects on my health. And not smoking does not seem to be that difficult to do. I just don't really want to quit.

Post 44

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 5:25am

Sorry joe if i was too harsh, i just hate all the "he said, she said, you did" babble that has been invading this site.

You do have a good point. In the article Barbara questions that she should be "the helpless victim of a powerful addiction". From all the work i have done for both tobacco companies and cancer societies i find that researchers have rechecked their conclusion that tobacco contains addictive substances many times, and proven that they do.

I would find it fair to conclude that we fall victim to addictions, but helpless victims... never.

Addictions, compulsive behaviors, exists - we can observe it in self and others. That we are rational creatures doesn't imply that we are only, and all the time, rational, it means that we are also rational. That we are rational creature also does not mean that we are right, rational behavior based on wrong data would lead to seemingly irrational behavior - in searching for irrational reasons to smoke i would guess the former dominant, but i would see neither rule out addiction.

I smoked 30 cigarettes a day for 22 years, nobody made me but me, i blame nobody but me, but an addiction it was, by definition. It was my deliberate choice to start. I stopped one day this january, didn't tell anybody, didn't promise anyone but myself, didn't read all the books, didn't go to any meetings, on the contrary i carried around a box of cigarettes and a lighter, and chose not to smoke them - that's what works for me... it was fairly easy... though i gained weight and got shorter fuse. That it was fairly easy, doesn't mean that i didn't have to fight the urge though, i did and i do.

I am a victim of a tobacco addiction, not a helpless victim, and not a victim of anyone else, I was made to suffer from my own actions.

Post 45

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 6:18am

Ashley, how can you claim that you go "from smoking more than a pack each day to not smoking at all" [emphasis added] and then state that you subsequently smoke?

Why do you fool yourself? Why don't you just admit that sometimes the intervals between cigarettes are longer than at other times?

You can't legitimately claim to have stopped smoking if you ever smoke again.

As a side note, I doubt you (or anyone else) will ever be able to stop smoking so long as you continue to like it. I think the key to quitting is the recognition of its nastiness. When you begin to look at smoking with disgust you will truly be able to say that you have quit.

Post 46

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 10:03am

Rick:

I didn't claim to stop smoking, I said exactly what you did - that there are intervals between cigarettes that are longer than others, sometimes months, where I do not smoke at all. My only point was that *during those intervals I do not experience physical withdrawal symptoms* and so I don't think that smoking is actually a physical addiction for me ( I don't know about other people and I really don't care).

I don't think I am fooling myself about anything and I don't think I have anything to admit to you. There doesn't seem to be any controversy. I like smoking, I have no desire to quit. I like being around people who are smoking. I don't want to live in a smoke-free state. If, on occasion, I feel like I don't want to smoke for a while, I don't get all dramatic and think that it means the end of my relationship with smoking, just a little break. There is no pretense of "quitting".

I don't pretend that smoking is good for me. In fact, I engage in quite a few things that could well be quite bad for me. But I measure the enjoyment I get against the risk to me and for now I think them quite worth doing. Maybe in the future I will change my mind.

Post 47

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 10:28am

Soren, I did the same exactly thing. One day I woke up and threw the fucking cigarettes in the garbage.I never smoked again ever since. I wanted to live, have fun, and run after my children.

Health is the most important part of our happiness , and the only important thing when we don't have it anymore.

cd

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 8/09, 10:29am)

Post 48

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:23pm

You can't legitimately claim to have stopped smoking if you ever smoke again.

As a side note, I doubt you (or anyone else) will ever be able to stop smoking so long as you continue to like it. I think the key to quitting is the recognition of its nastiness. When you begin to look at smoking with disgust you will truly be able to say that you have quit.

Oh, BS. This is the AA view of alcohol addiction applied to tobacco. Like many other "vices," smoking can be enjoyed while posing almost no health risk if it is done in moderation.

I smoke a pipe or cigar about once per week. I enjoy it. Smoking is cool. It's also something to keep under control.

Post 49

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:59pm

Andrew , nicotine is so addictive that even smoking once or twice a week, can become addictive.
cd

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 8/09, 5:01pm)

Post 50

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 5:01pm

It does bring to mind the old joke:

"So, is your new therapist better at helping you?"

"Much better. The old one thought that I couldn't stop. The new one discovered that I can stop any time I want to; I've already done it twenty times."

Post 51

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 6:18pm

People can form unhealthy attachments and habits that are focused on most anything. There was an episode of "Nanny 911" on a few weeks ago where the dad of the family was so obsessed with his carrier pigeons that he refused to go in the house during waking hours, his marriage was falling apart and his children were completely insane - his child wouldn't even piss in the toilet... would only walk outside and go on the sidewalk. I daresay there are people who hover over their computers entirely too much waiting for a new post to appear on SOLO.

Post 52

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 6:47pm

Ashley,

Don't worry about it. If you feel the need to quit permanently someday you will.

I smoked cigarettes for 14 years as follows. I smoked for 7 years. Stopped for 7 years. Smoked for another 7 years. Stopped for over 10 years now.

Both times when I quit, I did not become convinced of the nastiness of smoking. I simply got involved with something that was more important to me and incompatible with smoking. The first time was voice lessons. I took bel canto opera lessons for a while to learn how to write music for the voice. It was very important to me and my teacher forbade me to smoke, so I quit. (Actually, as it turned out, I would have done far better to chuck the lessons and keep on smoking - that teacher became my mother-in-law later...)

The second time was dental surgery. I had to leave a tooth root open for a couple of days and could not risk putting the residue from smoke down there. The original problem was so painful and the relief that the dentist provided impacted me so strongly that it was easy to stop - so easy that I stayed stopped.

It was this perspective that Kat told me helped her to quit.

About the pleasure, in Brazil I used to smoke 3 packs a day of John Player Specials (very strong - stronger than Camels). I only really enjoyed the first cigarette of the day, and then one or another with coffee after a meal (Brazilian habit). The rest was simply to kill the itch.

Frankly I don't mis it. But if you get pleasure out of smoking , by all means do it. But as the saying goes, take what you want in life - then pay for it. I sincerely hope you get a bargain.

btw - Lots of people smoke and drink on this forum. I don't anymore but I still treasure them.

Michael

Post 53

Wednesday, September 7, 2005 - 7:47am

Barbara, I just wanted to send a quick thank you for making me aware of this book. I read it to myself as a 30th birthday present. I had been smoking since 15 and tried the gum and patch and the pill and patch. two failed attempts.

The book however, was quite enlightening and i never ever realized what a crutch the cigarette truly was for me nor how deep of a dependency I had on it until I became a non smoker.

I appreciate it and just wanted to let you know.

Thank you. Sincerely, JML

Post 54

Wednesday, September 7, 2005 - 8:06am

Good luck Jeff

I read the book 5 years ago and it really helped me celebrate becoming a non smoker apposed to commiserating ( as per previous attempts at giving up).

I would love to say I have not had a cigarette since, but I can't as I have had 2, both occasions I was completely intoxicated and felt ill for about a week afterwards, however compared to my 20 a day habit I can live with it.

I have since become one of these non smokers who detests smoking & can't wait until it's banned from public places, especially bars, so I can go out, have a drink and not come back smelling of an ashtray !!

Post 55

Wednesday, September 7, 2005 - 5:52pm

"I have since become one of these non smokers who detests smoking & can't wait until it's banned from public places, especially bars, so I can go out, have a drink and not come back smelling of an ashtray !!"

Louise, Objectivists make a distinction between a public venue like a train station and a privately-owned place like a bar (some bar owners will cater to a smoking clientele and others will not ... and you may choose which to patronize.)

Phil

Post 56

Wednesday, September 7, 2005 - 7:50pm