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Monday, September 23, 2002 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
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Superb, Ross.

Post 1

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:28amSanction this postReply
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Good article. As an aside, let the fools think what they want. While they sit back covering their faces like three little monkeys in a row, people like us will be making $Top Dollar$ selling Shaw brand asteroid mining equiptment, ore, and machine tools. Let alone the lucrative franchise rights. ;-)

Post 2

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 2:07pmSanction this postReply
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This brings to mind one of my favourite sites: 'Astronomy Picture of the Day". A new picture is posted every day - always my first port of call once I connect. Today (25/9) its a stunning picture of the first untethered space
walk:

http://www.usenet.net.nz/apod/index.html

Post 3

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 6:29pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the link, Mark. I like the explanations under each pic.

You know, if I had it my way, Man's conquest of space would be core curriculum in schools. It embodies so much of what we are and what we are capable of achieving.

Ross

Post 4

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 9:05pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the link, Mark. I like the explanations under each pic.

You know, if I had it my way, Man's conquest of space would be core curriculum in schools. It embodies so much of what we are and what we are capable of achieving.

Ross

Post 5

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 4:57amSanction this postReply
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What are your thoughts on the argument that FDR withheld vital information about an imminent Japanese attack?

AB.

Post 6

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 6:34pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Andrew

Um, I've forgotten more about this topic than I remember but just off the top of my head...

The US (and the rest of the world) knew that Japan was an aggressor nation, particularly with regards to China, southeast Asia and the western pacific. It knew that secret negotiations had taken place between Nazi Germany and Japan. It knew that the real counter to Japanese expansion was the American presence in the Phillipines, and that any Pacific war would be a naval-marine war.

The US had broken the Japanese cipher codes with MAGIC and had been reading their transmissions for years. The US and Japan had been holding talks and negotiations right up until the attack on Pearl.

Now, to me, there were two FDRs. The statist who kept America in a depression and expanded the power of the federal govt, and the generally capable leader who lead America through most of the war. You could liken the relationship between Roosevelt and Churchill to the one between Reagan and Thatcher. I have no doubt of FDR's sincerity and mettle with regards to the prosecution of the war, although a lot of his political rationale would lead inevitably to the prolonged cold war standoff.

So, did FDR know about the attack? I don't believe so. Why would he and his staff, Marshall in particular, allow such a thing? To suggest that allowing the attack to proceed helped him get America fully into the war is as disingenuous as suggesting that Bush and the CIA allowed 9/11 to happen just to provide a pretext for aggression in the mideast.

Japan was acting in a conciliatory fashion right up until the eve of the attack. This feinting mirrors Hitler's relations with Russia and, I believe, Iraq's relations with the UN. It was nothing more than a ruse. Nothing changes.

Actually, I believe it was ignorance, naivety and bureacratic incompetence that allowed the US to be taken by suprise. Libertarians may hold that one of the few essential functions of the state is to defend it's citizens, but that doesn't mean they'll suffer any less from the general incompetence that infests all government activities.

Certainly Pearl Harbour changed US public attitudes in favour of a fully involved role but I don't believe that FDR allowed the attack to proceed with malice aforethought. Criticise him for his prewar political machinations--I not sure he deserves the blame for Pearl.

Ross

Post 7

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 4:14pmSanction this postReply
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I live on the Florida Space Coast. Although our local newspaper, Florida Today, reports on such incidents as astronaut Buzz Aldrin's recent confrontation with a moon-landing denier in Beverly Hills, such deniers do not seem to proliferate here. In the Local/State section of Florida Today on September 29, 2002, a story by Chris Kridler is headlined, "Brevard offers great launch-viewing sites." Quoting from the article:

"Space fans in Brevard County have a luxury that visitors do not: a dazzling array of choices when it comes to seeing a space shuttle launch. . . . 'When that baby lights off, you can see it with the naked eye,' said [a tour guide who takes passengers on a boat trip to view the launch from the water]. . . . 'The wall of sound [from the blast-off], you can really see it coming across the water on a calm day or a calm night.' . . . Fish literally jump out of the river, and 'the whole boat shakes for about 12 seconds.' . . . The good news for the cheap of wallet is that there are plenty of good free viewing sites. Just remember to go early, be patient when parking, and be really patient when leaving, because there will be a traffic jam."

I am usually at work during daytime shuttle launches, but no matter how busy my colleagues and I are, many of us usually take a break when the countdown reaches one or two minutes. We go outside with radios tuned to the countdown and watch the sky. We are much too far from the launch pad to see the initial liftoff, but within moments after it's reported, we see what looks like a small sun rising in the sky, followed by a long puffy tail of white smoke. Craning our necks to watch the bright spot's ascent, we seem to rise with it, our cares falling behind and forgotten for the moment. We keep watching that spot as it appears to turn into a traveling star--and some of us remain standing at attention even after the star appears to wink out, for within a few more moments, the slower-traveling sound of the liftoff reaches us in long waves of low thunder. After the sound arrives I go back to work, but it takes me a while longer to come down to earth.

On one unforgettable occasion, I went to a nearby beach to watch a night liftoff. It looked like a sunrise at night, if you can imagine such a thing. I watched it with a big crowd, including a group of teenagers who chanted along with their radio's broadcast of the last ten seconds of the countdown and cheered at the tops of their lungs as the shuttle went up. Leaving the beach in a slow-moving line of cars, I listened to the shuttle's progress on my car radio; by the time I got out of the parking lot, the shuttle was already over Africa.

I've lived here only since 1989. During the Apollo missions, I lived in New York City. After the break between Ayn Rand and Nathaniel Branden, I continued to see a number of people I had met at the Nathaniel Branden Institute; for the first moon landing, we gathered at the high-rise apartment of one who had three TV sets and had tuned them to each of the networks. Each network's report was slightly different from the others. The landing was broadcast live; I've never forgotten how agonizingly slow it was. When Neil Armstrong said, "Contact light," I gasped, "They're down!"--but my distracted companions didn't hear me. A few moments later, when he said, "The Eagle has landed," everyone in the room heard it and shouted in relief.

Weeks later, I read Ayn Rand's stunning essay "Apollo 11," which had just been published in the September 1969 issue of The Objectivist. As I told her in a brief thank-you letter I wrote to her, I was eating lunch at work when I read the article, "and I didn't taste a thing." Rand had witnessed the Apollo 11 liftoff at Kennedy Space Center--as close as witnesses could get to seeing it--and virtually relived her experience in her essay. Reading it even now, I still feel as though I'm witnessing the liftoff with her.

I suspect that moon-landing denial hasn't caught on here because watching shuttle liftoffs makes it impossible to believe we did not go to the moon. I note that the reported incident in which Buzz Aldrin punched a denier who had been harassing him took place in Southern California, where movies and TV shows proliferate. But no matter where you live, or whether you were alive during the Apollo missions, you may recognize the theory that the moon landings were fabricated as a fantasy typical of paranoid schizophrenia. If the moon-landing disbelievers are sane, they still exhibit the mental infirmity of the idle. Those who believe that NASA and the media had nothing better to do than to pull off such a hoax--and to somehow manipulate Space Coast residents and visitors to experience mass hallucinations of spacecraft launches--have nothing better to do themselves.

Note: The newly repaired space shuttle Atlantis is scheduled to be launched on a new mission on Wednesday, October 2, 2002.

Post 8

Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 12:29amSanction this postReply
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Going to the moon was a great technological achievement, but let us not forget that the whole enterprise was financed by tax loot.

We saw the man on the
moon. We did not see what people might have done with the looted billions if they had been free to keep it.

Celebrate the launch of Atlantis? I'm afraid not. Another billion tax dollars goes down the drain each time that thing goes up. What right does anyone have to pick my pocket for this?

Explore space? Great idea! But with private money only please.

Post 9

Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 5:40amSanction this postReply
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Right on, Mark. Personally, I hope that John Carmack of id Software gets off the ground; I hear that he's been involved in private rocket flight.

Post 10

Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
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Folks,

It seems appropate to talk about this, 100 years after the initiation of manned, powered flight (Dec 17, 1903 by the Wright Brothers)..

We live in a mixed economy.

Yes, taxation is horrible, and the money would be better spent our individual pockets, allowing us to decide what we wish to support.

However, to denegrate the Space Program, which at the present time, is our only link (hope?) to the future, is not so good.

You also seem to have forgotten all the economic benefits and spinoffs that have come from the exploration of space (from teflon to your little laptop and palmtop computers, medical supplies, and even TANG). Those were driven by the space program.

Before anyone even tries to explore space with private investments, there needs to be a serious change in the philosophy of private property! As I recall, the moon is considered 'common' property as per the UN (a laughable institution). What investor is going to want to risk their money on exploring (and exploiting) the moon when the vultures will swoop in for the kill the moment something constructive happens.

So, for one, I'll continue to hope that the private groups do open up space, and that the award (who's name I forget, sorry), for the first privately funded reusable space craft is given out in the next few years. Then space will be open up to all us landlubbers who long to fly.

Until that time, I'll keep watching the Shuttle Launch and dream!
Kevin

Post 11

Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 11:40amSanction this postReply
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you all underestimate the power of denial!

Post 12

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 6:09amSanction this postReply
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Not only underestimating the power of denial, you are very golable. About your article, did you ever consider backing up what you say? Doubts are not always bad, it keeps the system in check.

Post 13

Friday, April 22, 2005 - 9:08pmSanction this postReply
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This article came up as a random article, and I liked this line:



" Man went to the moon. And I hope one day we can find the courage to send him back--because reaching for the stars is mankind's proper destiny, and landing on the moon was not only a giant leap but a vital fulfillment of his promise."

Ross, spoken like a true Spaceplayer.


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Post 14

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 1:05pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Thanks for bringing attention to this article.

On a personal note, the beginning of the end of the relationship with one of my exes was over this very issue. One day she came out with the fact that the moon landing was a hoax. I of course thought she was kidding. So she picked a fight with me over it, a real bitter knock-down drag out fight. It was at that point that I started wondering what on earth I had been sleeping with for the last couple of years...

Love is really blind sometimes, I guess (a hoax?)...

I haven't talked about the moon landing with Kitten yet. Guess I'm a bit gun shy... In Brazil they say this differently - a scalded cat is afraid of cold water...      //;-)

Two lines jumped out at me - one you mentioned and another as a wonderful poetical image (I'll mention the one you did anyway too):
... that the sight of a beloved human standing on an inhospitable rock in a glorious white spacesuit, 250, 000 miles from his home, looking back to see, hanging in the starfield, the blue and green ball that gave birth to him, is the proper vision and purpose of humanity.

... reaching for the stars is mankind's proper destiny...
These are fantastically beautiful sentiments, especially as they are grounded in reality.

Ross Elliot, I checked out your profile. So, wherever you are, you are a good doggy - and you rock!

Michael


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Post 15

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 2:47pmSanction this postReply
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I haven't talked about the moon landing with Kitten yet. Guess I'm a bit gun shy... In Brazil they say this differently - a scalded cat is afraid of cold water...      //;-)

Don't be gun shy, dear.  I know that some of your exes are evil and stooopid, but I hope you realize I'm not irrational like that. I just don't always get your Brazilian sayings, but they sometimes crack me up.  Have you figured out Eggos vs. Egos yet?  You've been gone way too long.  Welcome home.  *purrrrrr*

(sees big dog and darts to the kitchen)



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Post 16

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 3:54pmSanction this postReply
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Michael and Kat,

I would like to say that I am delighted for the two of you, that you have found one another and are reveling in the happiness and euphoria of it all.  From the sound of both your experiences, it seems you have at last found an ideal match, and its significance cannot be minimized.

What I'm concerned about, however, is that the theme is now appearing on, well, just about every thread in this place.  It seems that no matter what the topic, we are now subject to purrs and sweet nothings.  (The moon??!!)

By no means do I wish to begrudge your happiness, and please understand that I'm not trying to be a killjoy.  I'm just wondering if you might be able to keep the drooling to the kitchen area, where at least there is a sink and a roll of paper towels?  :)

Kind regards (truly),
Jennifer


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Post 17

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 4:32pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

No, I don't think we can.

But thanks for the suggestion.

//;-)

Michael


Post 18

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 5:50pmSanction this postReply
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When we landed on the moon in the summer of '69, I was 9 years old and glued to the TV. My friends played loudly in the street outside the house. I was usually with them, but instead I sat with my head on my hands just a few feet from the TV screen. I listened to every word of the stoic Walter Cronkite and watched him tear up with emotion. I heard the crackling verbal relays from space. I watched Neil Armstrong land and leap. My heart lept with him. My parents told me later that I didn't move from my spot for hours and that I didn't respond to questions from others. I didn't hear them.

That landing on the moon did something to my soul. It made me proud to be human. It showed me men who strove and brooked no compromise. Even today, when I hear the names Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong, my heart swells.


Post 19

Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
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David: I love to hear stories of being so interested in an event that everything else is blocked out ; ).

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