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Post 0

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:01amSanction this postReply
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That's a beautiful piece Jody. Thanks for adding it! I'd like to see the original. I spent some time in the National Gallery in London earlier this year; There's noting like seeing an original artwork up close.

Ethan


Post 1

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 8:34amSanction this postReply
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I have always loved that piece. The expressions on both faces are what make it for me. The whole painting is exquisite, though.



rde
My love, though hath farted in they armor
Fear not, make no more flappings to push
it away
For it is well, I am above it all
And worse yet, my horse has done the same


Post 2

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
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A great work of art.

Post 3

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 1:24pmSanction this postReply
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Wonderful! I've loved this piece for at least a decade. Nice to know others appreciate it as well.

Post 4

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:58pmSanction this postReply
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Great piece.

---Landon


Post 5

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 6:08pmSanction this postReply
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Jody, the piece doesn't say much to me...but what I loved is the way you write about it...its so clear how you value it...that I appreciate that a great deal.

Michael


Post 6

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 6:41pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this one.  I am glad to see so many positive responses.

Thanks Michael for your back-handed compliment ;).  You know I am joking.  I have been meaning to say this before now, so I'll take the opportunity here and say how much I enjoy that you are once again posting here. 


Post 7

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:55pmSanction this postReply
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Michael-
If you ever get a moment, I'd love to hear your take on the Pre-Raphaelites.


Post 8

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:10pmSanction this postReply
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Gosh, Jody, that puts me into terrible territory.
I will only come off as a snob if I tell you what I really think. I know lots of people really love their work; and I almost do. Short answer is: I don’t like’em. But that won’t do will it?
Perhaps more than any other painter, Rembrandt gets my juices going. Its not so much about what he paints but how. Form, light, and space are axiomatic to sight. Many of the greatest names in art Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Delacroix, Vermeer, Van Gogh, Manet, Monet, and several others are masters of integrating these aspects and adapt them to their particular style. Picasso and Bacon, as several others, exercise these aspects at will. Abstract artists reject this, which led to so-called color symphonies, in which color no longer was used as a means to create form, light, space but was supposed to be significant in its own right–art for art’s sake–flat compositions of color fields. (A little aside for Hong’s benefit.)
If you were to visually compare the Pre-Raphaelites to Rembrandt you would start to observe that the Pre-Raphaelites begin to break down in one or more of those three aspects. Actually the aspects are tied together, if one is off, form of the head for example, it will throw off the space and light as well.
I am very much an elitist: the price of admission, for me to attend a representational art work, is their mastery of these aspects. If not, I get kind of angry, annoyed with the artist, very impatient and ready to run out of the gallery–it actually feels as if the canvas is bemoaning or screaming to me about their ill treatment at the hands of being butchered. Not joking here or taking artistic license. I am civilized so I don’t go around ranting out loud–but boy, it is a very intense feeling of dislike.


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Post 9

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 6:51pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Jody,

I hope you are not too put off by Michael’s comments on the Pre-Raphaelites. I always learn something from Michael’s comments on specific art issues. It’s quite educational. His language is very understandable for art lay-people such as me. It helps me to look at art piece a bit more objectively. It also shows what Michael is after in his art and his passion for the best and highest in his field.

 

However, all of those do not change the emotional impact a certain art work make on us at certain times if we perceive an artwork honestly with our own senses. Each of us has different temperament and life experience, and it’s inevitable that we respond to art differently. I agree with everything Michael said about abstract art. They are very objective. And yet, I will continue enjoy my Kandinsky, and hopefully you will continue enjoy your Pre-Raphaelites and of course Michael’s Denouement! ( I see you list it as your favorite in your profile).

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 12/22, 8:01am)


Post 10

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:35pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,
I am not put off at all by Michael's posts.  I did not think he was going to have a positive reaction to the pre-raphaelites, but I asked him because his remarks, negative or positive, are always incredibly brilliant.    As a matter of fact, Michael is probably the only person here that I would deliberately set myself up for a good tongue-lashing by!

And yes, Denouement is still my favorite work.  I had intended to post it and my comments about it next.  However, now that Michael knows how poor my tastes are, he may tell me to stay the hell away from his art!


Post 11

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

I agree completely with you. Art is about the personal first; flow with what speaks to you, enjoy it, bathe in it. Art history is something else. Art criticism, again something different. Teaching yet again its particular field. And I wasn’t lying when I told you off line I liked that Kandinsky of yours!
I think Jody, or I hope he does, understands I wrote from my perspective and not as a facilitator for general art appreciation....hahahahaha, any of you are welcome to pay me for that privilege.
If you think I am bad read how Michelangelo turned down a commission from the Pope...had to be the most scathing attacks, quite brilliant too, that the Pope ever received and, I am sure, not one he would ever forgot.
But there is also a positive point, getting into the method of art, can open up exalting avenues of feeling and understanding. Shakespeare comes to mind, there is the story and then there are many levels of construction, word play, form, grammar, double/triple meanings, rhythm...I am delighted to think that there will also be new insights to be had from him no matter how much I learn about my language. Great painters have these things going on right there on the surface of the canvas.
Indulge my little aside: I recently taught a class to very intelligent beginners, http://www.newberryworkshop.com/students/persp.htm Anyway, they had drawn a line drawing with pencil of a complex still life–lots of stuff. They had done what I asked them but there was a sense of rhythm missing. And I thought "how am I going to teach them that?!!!" But I showed them how I look for similar lines, forms, and angles–how some balanced others, how some mimicked, mirrored etc. What was so cool was that they looked at the still life in a totally different way and they began to feel the forms and the setting; their body language totally changed, they put out their hands and arms to sense the groupings of the objects...and they did improve greatly. I believe that non-painters can get similar feelings by simply view great art. It can feel like someone is making love to your eyes.
Michael


Post 12

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
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Jody,

hahahahaah, delighted by your response. Thank you. But I already told you I love the way you discused this work...that made me want to see it from your perspective, and I did look at it for sometime that way... Yes, tongue-lashing, murdering people, and shooting them seems to be a sign of respect from some people around here!

Michael

oh, just read over your comment about setting up deliberately for a tongue lashing...hmmm, I think Hong does that all the time.

M

(Edited by Newberry on 12/21, 8:12pm)


Post 13

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 9:27pmSanction this postReply
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"And I wasn’t lying when I told you off line I liked that Kandinsky of yours!"

Now you spoiled everything. ;-^

You students are amazing. Their teacher must be great too. I particularly like the last drawing by Lauren.


Post 14

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:52pmSanction this postReply
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Jody,
A great painting indeed. John William Waterhouse also has a painting called 'La Belle Dame Sans Merci'. Very beautiful. Have you seen it?

Post 15

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 7:29pmSanction this postReply
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Erik-
I have seen the work by Waterhouse.  I almost like the action in it better, but upon first viewing it could be any depiction of any knight and his dame if one did not know the accompanying poem.(although it is a great depiction in my opinion).  What I see in the work by Dicksee is something that needs no further illimuminating imformation in order for the viewer to grasp the emotion.  The poem by Keats is all about the knight, "alone and palely loitering.", and why it is that he is "ailed" and is alone on the "cold hillside".  Regardless of whether or not one knows the poem, I feel the work by Dicksee comes closer to expressing the emotions of the poem in the painting itself.  Not the after effects of the knights encounter with the "belle dame", but the emotions felt while she was by his side.
John William Waterhouse: La Belle Dame Sans Merci - 1893


Post 16

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 8:56pmSanction this postReply
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With another more kind perspective...have you noticed that the piece is riddled with erotic symbols?  That army of trees aint there for decoration, especially the one up front and center! Notice how they cut against the languid water behind; and the little pool of red...hmmm, I like all those parts the best!

Michael


Post 17

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
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(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 12/22, 9:01pm)


Post 18

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 9:02pmSanction this postReply
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hey Joe,

Which is????

Michael


Post 19

Friday, December 23, 2005 - 7:09amSanction this postReply
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Michael said: "...getting into the method of art, can open up exalting avenues of feeling and understanding."

Certainly. But the thing is not that simple. I think that the majority of us here are probably in a state of "blissful ignorance" regarding matters outside our specialized field. While a pro like yourself must often experience some sort of "agony of a perfectionist" in many artworks.

I am currently going through a very basic musical education - I've been sit in my son's piano lessons for the last three years and spent literally hundreds of hours in it. Boy, how has my newly acquired knowledge ruined my enjoyment of all my son's recitals! On the other hand, when I go to the live concerts by real musicians, I do seem to be able to hear more in their music.


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