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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 8:59amSanction this postReply
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This piece finally showed up.  What do I see?   By the looks of the "art" I would say typical pretentious POMO crap trying to pass itself off as art.  This is anti-Objectivist artwork if I ever saw it.  When I saw his blog it was quite clear that this is a Chrisitan troll out to insult our visual sensibilities as anyone knows that this is the farthest thing from what Ayn Rand and most Objectivists would consider to be art.  It's right up there with spit on shit.

Here is an entry from his blog.  Please don't feed the troll. 


Monday, September 19

Pauly the Sinner Gets Forgiven.

Like it or not, I shall be remembered as a man after the things of God. That may bug some. This may discourage others into oblivion. Others who may have known me or met me may have felt something different. All I can say is that there was always something in the back of my mind, wanting to help others, and to get them farther along in their life than they were at that point. I have made a lot of stupid mistakes, and never knew how to make friends well and keep them happy, and ended up really hurting most of them... but they will survive. I have lied and cheated and done many a devious thing to my fellow man... but I know that God has forgiven a poor wretch such as myself. God has sent his smiling Son into my life and set me free from the wracking prison of despondency. And He is the only reason that I can give any good testimony whatsoever. Jesus saved me... and that's that. So on with life! Let the courage be in the battle and let me hold nothing back from living this life on and into the fullest of it's extent. I am a man of God, and He loves me. No matter what anyone remembers.


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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 9:16amSanction this postReply
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you seem to have picked one of my most pointed poem/journal entrys from my past that i posted somewhere and haven't seen in some while. thank you for putting it back in my face to remind me.

if i may quote from your post quoting me: "Let the courage be in the battle and let me hold nothing back from living this life on and into the fullest of it's extent."

let it be known that just because i call into my own heart the foundation of an itelligent designer of my soul, does not mean that i force you to. and just as i do not agree with ANY of the looters of my own celestial veiwpoint (including those who call me a troll), i do not subscribe to the point of view of those also who are "called of GOD... blah blah blah". i am probably the most pagan of all christians that i know. as a point in case, i have been fired from two churches and excommunicated from another.

i will not appologize for my position. my god is exactly that MINE. i will not try and SPREAD anything out that is my own personal truth. i cannot stop you or stoop to the level of name-calling, but you cannot stop me from expressing my own opinion here either. it is mine and it is at least valid to me. please show some respect and realize at least one truth:

not everyone agreed with ragnar, but they all did live in the same town for at least one month out of the year in harmony.

thank you for at least spending the time in reading this.

-pauly hart

p.s. as this pertains to the peice of art... differences of opinion do not neccesarily force one into the "right" and "wrong" category. when i painted the peice i never saw the other pictues that were there. they were pointed out to me by different people. that doesn't make them wrong for seeing something that i did not. or vice versa. thank you.


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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
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Hmmm...I was going to joke that I saw the Virgin Mary or Elvis, or Jesus's face on the shroud of Turin, but I'll play along, only because I think I may have seen something...looked at the way it's presented, I see a man on the left side standing on a rock surrouned by angry water caught in a storm, being blown away...turned 90 degrees, I see a vague face, no gender, but maybe supposed to represent Jesus.
Though I have to say this is an odd post for an Objectivist forum...

Post 3

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 5:18pmSanction this postReply
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Just like an Inkblot test - it is just in the imagination, not in the presenting, let alone the re-presenting...  so no, it is not, by the nature of the concept, ART.

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Post 4

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 5:27pmSanction this postReply
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I see the desiccated corpse of an octopus lying on a beach at dusk.  And if that's not weird enough, the hapless cephalopod is wearing a top hat and tails.

*sigh*  I knew I should never have quit smoking crack...


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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 5:29pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, it is rather octopusish...and very Rorshach.

Post 6

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 5:39pmSanction this postReply
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What does FILE TRAFFIC OVER mean? That phrase is huge and in the middle of the thing. Also some advertising from IMAGEHosting.US.

Michael


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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 6:40pmSanction this postReply
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I didn't see FILE IMAGE OVER in it, Michael, but I swear I see half a kitten's face...and I think I found Waldo in there, too...

Post 8

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 7:11pmSanction this postReply
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This is what I see:





Post 9

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 7:13pmSanction this postReply
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Rick,

That's what I see too. Message from... er... did I hear thunder?

Michael


Post 10

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 7:17pmSanction this postReply
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Here's what you should be seeing-(okay, I grant you that.  You shouldn't be seeing it...but here it is in all of it's anti-splendour.)


(Edited by Jody Allen Gomez on 9/23, 7:17pm)


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Post 11

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 8:13pmSanction this postReply
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I see Neptune riding a chopper.

Post 12

Friday, September 23, 2005 - 10:51pmSanction this postReply
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Jody,

When I look at your post now I see the exact same image as I posted. However, when I looked earlier I saw the correct (?) image. You used exactly the same URL as Pauly did. Why you think that doing the same thing should produce different results I can't imagine.

Evidently the picture hosting service is overloaded and sends out an 'error image' when that happens.

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Friday, September 23, 2005 - 11:34pmSanction this postReply
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Donald: Post 11 had me laughing my ass off.

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 5:59amSanction this postReply
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Donald:  I see Neptune riding a chopper.


That's absurd.  Everyone knows Neptune rode a Waverunner!


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Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 7:33amSanction this postReply
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It is the surface of the water when the fishies are getting down.

Post 16

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 8:01amSanction this postReply
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It is the surface of the water when the fishies are getting down.


That reminds me of that famous W.C. Fields quote about why he never drank water. ;o)


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Post 17

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 8:29amSanction this postReply
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Pauly,

You see what happens when you try to impose one set of values on a place that has a well-defined set of other values? Here the concept of art that is celebrated is "a selective recreation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value judgments." (Ayn Rand's definition.)

This is based on a psycho-epistemological premise called "sense of life" which is “a pre-conceptual equivalent of metaphysics, an emotional subconsciously integrated appraisal of man and existence.” (Ayn Rand's definition once again.)

To appreciate the art you paint, you have to change that conception, which is an awfully good one. I was once involved with an abstract painter and I had to force myself to see her work in some kind of light to justify why it spoke to me. Here is what I came up with.

If you close you eyes, open them real fast and pay attention, you will notice a moment where everything is a blur, the moment right before things come into focus. Good abstract painting to me captures that moment, as it is the only thing I can relate to my own experience in the whole "abstract" concept. Joe Maurone above mentioned Rorschach, the guy with the ink blot test. That is a similar concept.

Most abstract painting to me does not address this experience and is pure junk. You are a good abstract painter because of this connection and appeal to low level sensory input. Art for percepts, (as opposed to concepts) so to speak. Art for focusing on a direct psycho-epistemological experience - direct percept formation. ("Psycho-epistemology is the study of man's cognitive processes from the aspect of the interaction between the conscious mind and the automatic functions of the subconscious." - Ayn Rand)

When I look at a painting like yours for a long time, I find my mind wandering all over the place. Frankly I get a certain amount of pleasure from letting the subconscious roam about freely for a while (which is the nature of creative types), so I am not such a harsh critic.

The problem with this kind of art in an Objectivist place is that the stuff we appreciate is Romanticism, which is "a category of art based on the recognition of the principle that man possesses the faculty of volition." (Ayn Rand's definition.)

In order to have volition, a conceptual faculty is needed. Your art speaks to the perceptual level, not the conceptual. One disadvantage to the type of art you do when it is appreciated in the manner I gave above is that I can't remember it for too long. One painting like that is the same as another. A different "focus" might start me off in a different direction at the beginning, but once the subconscious wandering starts, it's anything goes.

You look like you have talent and I would like to encourage you to try your hand at a more academic style in addition to abstract, seeing if you can develop a "stylized" version without stepping outside the bounds of conceptual integration. Incorporating the percept formation thing is not only possible in that case, it can become an essential part of a great stylistic technique.

Also, may I suggest you try a few Christian websites? You will only set yourself up for derision around here with that stuff.

If you are interested in putting your faith to the acid test, I suggest the the work of Earl Doherty to be extremely useful in understanding why an historical Jesus is so hard to document and is probably a myth. And there is an amazing book called Dare To Think For Yourself: A Journey from Faith to Reason by Betty J. Brogaard, which recounts her journey from Christianity to athiesm. You can find it at PublishAmerica. There (and in Mr. Doherty's work), you will find discussions of how the Bible was written and copied, prophesies, faith, doublets (evidencing multiple authors of the same books in the Bible) and a host of other interesting points.
 
I wish you well.
 
Michael

Post 18

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 1:44pmSanction this postReply
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MSK wrote,
"Your art speaks to the perceptual level, not the conceptual."

Michael,
I've asked this of others many times before, even going back to the old SOLO Yahoo forum, yet haven't received an answer: Would you please explain which concepts are conveyed by music? I think I've asked about Ravel's Bolero as a specific example in the past. What does it mean? Which concepts does it contain?

There are many people who are more sensitive to colors, shapes and textures than you are to sounds. They get a stronger feeling from looking at an abstract canvas than what you might get from listening to music. Would you deny that it is possible that non-representational colors, shapes and textures directly speak to their emotions in the same way that non-representational sounds speak to yours?

As a musician, you've probably encountered a lot of people who are "tone-deaf," and many more who just don't "get it" when listening to most music. They use it as perceptual-level background noise, and it really doesn't grab them by the soul. In effect, it's not really art to them in the Randian sense.

Well, I get the sense that most Objectivists are "color-blind." I think it was Luke Setzer and Roger Bissell who mentioned recently that they used a book on color to coordinate their wardrobes. To me, that's funny, and I'd suspect that most Objectivist (and most other engineers, computer geeks, math dorks, and other various Spock-types) could use such a book to help them begin to get a hint of an inkling of the idea that colors, shapes and textures can have as many subtle harmonies as music.

Do you think it's possible that, in general, the type of mind that is attracted to Objectivism might be deficient when it comes to grasping visual patterns, harmonies, and emotional content?

J


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Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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In terms of the decorative arts, using colors as visual substitutes of auditory might be considered - but as fine art, no, since the human mind operates from the conceptual via the perceptual, not the sense-ual...

                                               


                                    
It is my contention that the first of the Arts was music. It evolved from the developmental consequences of sound being used to mark territories, and for courting - both activities involved with acquiring and retaining a mate. It has long been noted among the observations of animals - birds in particular, where the songs given forth are often complex and unique to the individuals involved. It has also been noted among the primates - especially the orangutan, where its displays of howlings go much beyond mere coutring the upcoming nuptials, but a continuing afterwards, not just as signalings to outsiders of a territory to refrain from, but as an added inducement to continuedness with the chosen mate. Moreover, this is echoed with the female, who joins in - indeed who sets up refraining choruses which play off those of the male's. In each of these examples, the vocalizations are evolved into a measure of complexity such that the tones evoke specific emotional responses - and this is where music comes in. Music is first and formost melody, with the tones used being an extention to those of the forebearers in regards to the vocalizations evoking specific emotional responses. It is an extention of a means of communicating - in this case in line with the developing of cognition, such that the experiences of a not-present is thus being vocalized, not initially with other than just the soundings [words came later] evoking particular emotions familiar at the time thru the same process of evolving as was with, for instance, the orangutan, but being emitted as a form of remembrance, utilizing the same soundings which were originally used at the times of the events first evoking them. Being observant beings, no question, these were embellished thru observations of sounds emitted by such as birds, which widened the repertoire as such. Rhythm, then, was added as a means of providing cadence, enhancing the vocal experience.
 
It is in this way that the first direction of rhythm went - an overlaying into the beginning of music, starting with percussional efforts from beating sticks, clapping, and so forth, eventuating into xylophone-like instruments made from mammoth bones. From there, it would be discovering tones from blowing thru assorted reeds or hollow bones [aligning them of sorts to the tones already produced by the vocalizations], eventuating the flute and pan pipes from assorted lengths of the reeds or bones, to discovering that various holes in a bone produced different tones. When, after hunters discovered the bow, which made a great advance over the throwing of the spear, an idle hunter one time might have 'twanged' it [or even more possible, a child having gotten hold of one 'twanged' it], thereby discovering the tone-making from it, as well as noticing that if the length of the gut is different, different tones resulted, thereby eventuating the rudiments of what became the lyre. At this time as well, tones from the instruments also did some substituting for the vocals, carrying the melody into the instruments themselves - especially if there was perceived a similarity in how they sounded to those doing the vocalizating.
                                           [from the chapter "Acts of Creation" from my manuscript]

It is in this respect that music deals with the cognitive, that is, the conceptual aspects of reality... but there is no way this works with - normally - the visual, as that operates, as said, from the perceptual level, not the sense-ual level... it is true there are psychological affects of colors on a person, but even so, there is nothing conceptual from that, only the pricking as it were of emotions, elicitating at best moods - and from the conceptual level, in term of contemplativeness, utter boredom.

(Edited by robert malcom on 9/24, 2:21pm)


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