RoR: Forum

I got a job and moved off campus ASAP. Then my performance deteriorated.

Post 1

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 4:10am

I found the constant interruptions of roommates as well as the noise and distractions of campus life less than conducive to academic mastery.

I posted this poll to learn about the experiences of others in this regard.

My experience improved once I got a room to myself the last three semesters.

I feel truly excited for the next generation of students who can earn degrees online from their recliners in the living rooms of their parents' houses.

Bricks and mortar begone!

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 11/26, 4:27am)

Post 2

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 4:57am

In my first night in the dorms, someone poked all the peep-holes out of the doors in our hallway, and squeezed toothpaste through them. Someone's clothes, covered in shit, were left in the showers. The staff left them there for a week. My roommate didn't show up. Until, at 4am I woke to the sound of running water. We didn't have a sink. He was peeing in my other roommate's dresser drawer. I came home later that week to find the late-night-pisser going through my drawer. "Don't worry" he said, "I'm not taking your things, I just stashed my pot in your drawer." Both my roommates smoked cigarettes, constantly. I have respiratory issues. They had both put down "non-smoker" on their housing surveys.

Post 3

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 5:08am

Ted, I can see why you left campus ASAP.

Can you tell us about your experience after leaving campus?

Post 4

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 5:37am

I had a scholarship which included housing. It was not worth the subsidy. Life off campus is simply what you make of it. You choose your roommates, and your hours, and your life, just as you would as an adult with a job. Indeed, I found college to be much less stimulating than highschool, since I went to a good high school, and much of early college was filled up taking basic required courses which were repeats of high school - or elementary school. We had to take a class in using the library card catalog! This is something I had been doing since the first grade. Ugh...

I do like live classes, especially for science and language. Math and business can be done over the internet with little loss.

Post 5

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 5:52am

Ted, your story supports the idea of dual enrollment where high school students can take college courses and get credit toward both their high school diplomas and college degrees.

Your story, especially the part about the roommates, makes me think you might appreciate this video:

Post 6

Monday, December 1, 2008 - 8:24pm

I found the constant interruptions of roommates as well as the noise and distractions of campus life less than conducive to academic mastery.

well, it is important to be able to master both academics AND socialization, you know.

Post 7

Monday, December 1, 2008 - 11:15pm

Socialization ... Socialization ... Hmmmmmm ...

Does it appear on my transcript? Nope.

Does it appear on my resume? Nope.

Does it show in my interviewing skills? Maybe, but I can think of better ways to hone interviewing skills than dormitory life offers.

Perhaps Mr. Druckenmiller posted facetiously.

Post 8

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 8:25am

In my first night in the dorms, someone poked all the peep-holes out of the doors in our hallway, and squeezed toothpaste through them. Someone's clothes, covered in shit, were left in the showers. The staff left them there for a week. My roommate didn't show up. Until, at 4am I woke to the sound of running water. We didn't have a sink. He was peeing in my other roommate's dresser drawer. I came home later that week to find the late-night-pisser going through my drawer. "Don't worry" he said, "I'm not taking your things, I just stashed my pot in your drawer." Both my roommates smoked cigarettes, constantly. I have respiratory issues. They had both put down "non-smoker" on their housing surveys. (Ted)

Oh, my. That pretty much tops what I was thinking of sharing as my dorm horror stories.

I will mention that the dorm I stayed in was a university-approved, off-campus, privately-run dormitory, and they (unlike actual university housing) offered private rooms to parents willing to shell out the extra bucks to make sure their kids didn't have to deal with roommates. I have to believe that those kids had it better than the rest of us (less-wealthy) students; the socialization aspects that Mr. Druckenmiller mentioned were still certainly available, but at the end of the night, you had the room to yourself.

I hope that wherever my son decides to go to college has a similar housing option, as I may consider selling a kidney (if need be) to make sure his education is not distracted by a jackass roommate.

Because dorm roommates can really be awful.

Post 9

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 9:24am

My dorm experience was good, I guess - when got in as freshman, the reg dorms were full, so they used the old college dorm [which was supposedly to have been torn down five years previously - was in the midst of the downtown and, to my guess originally a hotel, or at least built hotel-like], since freshmen had all to be in dorms... consequently, tho it was an OLD building, I had a room to myself - nice and spacious, wood floor, and quiet at night [surprised, huh...heh, heh]... and plenty of socializing downstairs in the commons room, as well as elsewhere on campus and in the town - eg. pizza parlors and the like... sure didn't negatively affect my schooling...

The following year, tho, took a private room from a home - was cheaper, and it got me exposed to Dave Brubeck... ;-)

Post 10

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 5:21pm

Overrated Life Experiences

1. The Prom Night Experience -- Spend lots of money on frilly clothes, a limousine, and a fancy dinner and then hope your date doesn't do stupid things to embarrass you, like get drunk and vomit or, worse, abandon you on the dance floor for the person with whom he or she really wanted to go.

2. The Dormitory Experience -- Think Lord of the Flies set on a college campus where the most belligerent and controlling people domineer over their meeker peers.

3. The Greek House Experience -- Like (2) on steroids with a stronger element of tribalism thrown into the mix for good measure.

4. The Campus Experience -- Pay for the overhead costs of bricks and mortar and have the privilege and honor of traipsing miles per day across an oversized campus in inclement weather to listen to blowhard professors who could not teach their way out of paper bags.

5. The Wedding Experience -- Like (1) but two orders of magnitude more expensive.

Erica, I checked Google to see if Illinois has any programs like Learn and Earn Early College High School but it looks like they're not on board yet. Dual enrollment looks sketchy, too. Maybe you can research the issue further.

I mention all this because if I had my education to do today, I would show my folks how cheaply and quickly I could get a college education with Learn and Earn Early College High School followed by engineering school, possibly allowing me to bypass the whole dastardly "campus experience" altogether.

If someone came to me today and said, "Luke, you can earn all the credits you need in the comfort of your home via the Internet," I would reply, "Really? Honest? You mean I can bypass all this stupid, irrelevant social crap altogether and still get the job I want? Where do I sign?"

Post 11

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 5:59pm

Hopefully, by the time you get married, you are an adult, and know your spouse well enough not to fear his showing up drunk. That experience is what you make of it, and you have only yourself to blame if one of the newlyweds is a louse or a souse. As for the rest? Well said.

Post 12

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 8:46pm

Does it appear on my transcript? Nope.

Does it appear on my resume? Nope.

Does it show in my interviewing skills? Maybe, but I can think of better ways to hone interviewing skills than dormitory life offers.

Gosh, I bet you are lots of fun.

You know what? Living and interacting with others is not, I will readily admit, a graded activity. However, I had no idea that the standards for "success" and "happiness" were solely determined by grades.

You know what else is not graded? Appreciation for "The Good Life". Love and friendship. You get the drift.

Ultimately, the way one is "graded" in life is how willing he is to follow reason and reality, and you will note that "reason" is not pure logic or academic pursuits and reality (for the most part) entails living with others, for better or for ill.

Socialization does not appear on transcripts or resumes, but you will have a hell of a time keeping a job in 95% of the workforce if you cannot "play well with others".

I will also stipulate that sometimes socialization is overvalued. That does not mean it deserves the derision you seem to be appending.

Post 13

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 9:17pm

And of course, dorm life offers plenty of casual sex.

And plenty of STD's.

Post 14

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 6:43am

Ted, I know intelligent, capable people who married closet alcoholics and had to divorce them later.

Steven, dormitories and campus life bear little resemblance to the typical middle class lifestyle. They do little in the way of socializing people in accordance with reason and reality and a future productive life. I would characterize them as closer to military barracks and prisons than ordinary life. Living in these facilities roughly doubles the cost of education at a typical state university. In short, I see many more cons than pros of this form of education versus a clean, no frills, straightforward Internet learning format taken in the home in which the student grew from infancy. Productive student endeavors such as cooperative education and internships handle the issue of learning to socialize in a work environment. I consider these orders of magnitude superior to drunken fraternity parties and other destructive nonsense. Bricks and mortar begone!

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 12/03, 7:01am)

Post 15

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 8:25am

Luke,
Without bricks and mortar, how would Galt, Francisco, and Ragnar have met; and how would they have been tutored by Hugh Akston?
Thanks,
Glenn

Post 16

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 12:32pm

I suspect they would had found each other in a related chat room... or forum...

Post 17

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 4:30pm

Glenn, Robert Malcom has answered your question approximately as I would have.

Modern technology makes bricks and mortar obsolete with perhaps the exception of actual laboratory training which consumes only a fraction of the space of lecture halls.

I understand that at the time of the fictional events you describe, bricks and mortar remained necessary. However, I do not recall any mention in Atlas Shrugged about crowded dormitories or wild fraternity house parties. In fact, in The Fountainhead, Howard Roark had the sense to rent a private room in a private house while attending his university.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 12/03, 4:33pm)

Post 18

Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 6:52pm

I agree that the universities today have much wrong with them, but the concept is good. I lived in a dorm, then a frat house, and then a place of my own. I had only minor problems with noise and being disturbed. I loved nearly every minute of college - the classes, the studying, the parties, the romances, and the friends. I don't think the problems are in the brick and mortar - but in our culture:

the last generation or two of faculty seem to have so few worthy of respect,
the predominate philosophies that are so bankrupt and litter the curriculum with crap courses,
the child-rearing practices that have isolated the last few generation of students from adult expectations in favor of peer-guidance.

For me, there was an intense energy in a university - arising out of the excitement of people pursuing ideas, tasting independence, and being in charge of their lives for the first time.

The universities need to be reclaimed, the primary schools fixed, and our culture has to learn to have expectations - expectations that kids need to meet as well as university administrators. The intensity and excitement of the college experience can not be captured in on-line courses. It is sad that some people miss out on that.

Post 19

Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 6:25am