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Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
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In discussing Ayn Rand's writing style as a philosopher, several SOLOists got on a tangent on dictionaries.  I do not know that this will set the record straight.  However, my opinions here are derived from my experience as a professional writer.  They are also tempered by my close association with my wife, who is a professional proofreader.

1.  The American Heritage Dictionary is for children.  We call it "The Pictionary."

2. The only "Webster's" dictionary that we recognize is the Merriam-Webster.  My wife stays current and we have several.  I have the 7th and the 11th and I am happy.  My wife considers Mirriam-Webster definitive and final for American English.

3.  I rely on the Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language from WORLD Press.  Being from Cleveland, I grew up with this as the hometown favorite and it has served me well over the last 40 years or so.  It is not so much that the definitions are astounding, as that the etymologies are reliable.  I believe that we "hear" words with the "back of the mind." 

3a. I also have a facsimile edition of Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language.  It is helpful for understanding historical works, such as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

4.  The so-called "Oxford" dictionaries must be evaluated independently.  I have one such paperback, supposedly from the same people who publish the OED.  In this case, my ppb is marked and corrected in about a dozen places, mostly noting, not that my definitions are "better" but that theirs are internally self-contradictory: words are used differently in different definitions.

5.  No dictionary pretends to be an "authority" telling people what words "really" mean.  Any dictionary only reports what the editors guess most people seem to mean by the way they use words according to context.  I know that scares the living daylights out of people who demand objective reality from their authorities, but the fact is that words do not have "objective" meanings and certainly, no dictionary claims that, except perhaps the Ayn Rand Lexicon.

6. Weak writers cite "the dictionary" in their essays.  According to the dictionary, capitalism is...  According to the dictionary, freedom is...  According to the dictionary, life is... 

6.a. If you are using words that your audience does not know, you take on a special burden.

6.b. If you are using words in a special way that your audience does not know, you take on a special burden.

Typical examples of both of those cases include supply, demand, gravity, and force. 

However, when a writer presents a forceful argument, no one expects that to mean "mass times the second derivative of the displacement vector" -- a correct definition of "force" not to be found in the common dictionaries.

6.c. If a writer is making a special point, seeking to establish some new truth, setting the baseline of understanding is helpful.  Ayn Rand did a lot of that.  It can also be helpful to prove that someone else is uninformed or ignorant or morally corrupt by showing that their use of some word is contrary to established usages.  Ayn Rand did that, as well. 

Over all, for all of the special knowledge that Ayn Rand imparted to us, her readers, and admirers, her reliance on "arguing the dictionary" was a weakness in her writing.

7.  I highly recommend The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester.  It is a story of the Oxford English Dictionary.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 3/13, 2:59pm)


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Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:21pmSanction this postReply
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Michael, dude, I find you intelligent and provocative. I like some things of yours I read. But you sure can be pretentious and sanctimonious.

1.  The American Heritage Dictionary is for children.  We call it "The Pictionary."

This particular dictionary (Second College Edition) is standard issue for US government employees - I know this because my mother was one once. This dictionary was issued to her and everyone else at the Department of Energy and the US Navy. And she was certainly not a child when she managed to become a secretary to Admiral Rickover. The US Navy is not run with children or toys.

I want to talk philosophy and not etymology anyway.

Just a question. Out of the last several posts I have read by you, I noticed that practically each one takes a barb at Ayn Rand. I like some of the things you say so I don't want to turn off to reading your posts. We all know she had some shortcomings. So is this constant demeaning of Rand an emotional thing?

Michael




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Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 7:04pmSanction this postReply
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It would seem that way for some - life  can be harsh as an Objectivist, and some seem to need to blame another.

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Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 9:41pmSanction this postReply
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Dictionaries define (give various usages of) words.

Words are not concepts. Words are labels for concepts.

(Philosophical) discussion deals with the definitions of concepts.

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Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:08amSanction this postReply
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>>  .  I highly recommend The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester.  It is a story of the Oxford English Dictionary.

I suspect this is the US title of The Surgeon of Crowthorne, also by Simon Winchester.  It is also a story of the Oxford English Dictionary.  Must be the same book?!

I also highly recommend it.  I must now conclude this post I have no more alsoes at present.


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Monday, March 14, 2005 - 7:05amSanction this postReply
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MSK wrote: Michael, dude, I find you intelligent and provocative. I like some things of yours I read. But you sure can be pretentious and sanctimonious.

Thank you.  In my alter ego as a mild mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, I am humble to a fault, blushing and stammering like a Hugh Grant character.  BUT! When night falls and I enter the ~~ REALM OF THE OBJECTIVISTS ~~ I become Wordsmith: Man of Graphite!
Also, I do not see myself as pretentious and sanctimonious, but, rather, as officious and fatuous.
 
1.  The American Heritage Dictionary is for children.  We call it "The Pictionary."
This particular dictionary (Second College Edition) is standard issue for US government employees... a secretary to Admiral Rickover. The US Navy is not run with children or toys.

An objectivist might make a statement about the political consequences of the psycho-epistemology of government bureaucracies, but I won't.  My work for what was once a Navy pay center came on a project known as Operation Mongoose.  The last thing you want to happen is to have a Marine Corps major show up to audit your books, because when he is not being an accountant, he is leading light infantry.  Those folks are pretty serious.  Many other serious people make choices different from mine on many matters.

"...practically each one takes a barb at Ayn Rand. ...  We all know she had some shortcomings. So is this constant demeaning of Rand an emotional thing?"

I did not realize that it was becoming a habit.  I have noticed recently that some writers here contradict others by citation to AR as if that ends discussion.  At root, the definition of "Objectivist" requires complete agreement with all of the writings of AR.  Here on SOLO, we have more latitude.  Also, we are among (ahem) family here.  In the other world of Metropolis, I tell people that I am effective as a teacher because I have read Introduction to the Objectivist Epistemology and I recommend it highly.  Here in the halls of the Justice League, I will admit that parts of IOE make me laugh with embarrassment.  Telling you that is not so much a matter of needing your approval as it is of needing to avoid the work that is waiting for me in my other office.  We all have needs -- define them as you will.

(And I appreciate the fact that you sometimes enjoy reading what I write.  I doff my hat to you, too, Alphonse.)



 


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Monday, March 14, 2005 - 7:07amSanction this postReply
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>>  .  I highly recommend The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester.  It is a story of the Oxford English Dictionary.
I suspect this is the US title of The Surgeon of Crowthorne
 
Yes, The Surgeon of Crowthorne is the UK title and Professor and the Madman is how it was marketed here in the States.


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Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:21pmSanction this postReply
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Here in the halls of the Justice League, I will admit that parts of IOE make me laugh with embarrassment. 
Michael calls you on being pretentious and taking gratuitous pot shots at Ayn Rand and you respond like this! Now *that's* funny.


Post 8

Monday, March 14, 2005 - 6:22pmSanction this postReply
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See the Humor Forum for my reply. (No kidding.)


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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:55amSanction this postReply
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Michael M,

I went to the humor forum and saw what I saw. At least, that one thing about you explains a lot to me.

To tell the truth, in the thread we are on now I was quite impressed with your good nature to a rather aggressive post I made. You are so full of interesting information...

Question. Are you unaware of the way your constant dismissals and disparaging remarks of Ayn Rand rub me (and apparently others) the wrong way? I'm serious.

I posted an article on autism earlier and there was a response from several different people who had experiences with the different fascinating forms of mental "gifts" (I think this is a marvelous term for these conditions). Some of these gifted people lack normal things (like everyday social graces, for example). You made a most interesting post there. Here is a line I really liked:

"Next thing you know, whistling will be a disorder in a world of hummers."

Well I whistle and hum - I have always had a thing with the crazies - and I hear a frequency in your posts that is not spiteful, however it is tremendously callous. So, in this context, and not as a spar, I want to ask because I am interested in knowing. Are you simply unaware of the impact of your callous words about Rand? I have my suspicions.

I am not saying that Ayn Rand's shortcomings should never be mentioned. SOLO isn't ARI by far. But Rand's contribution to the body of mankind's most glorious achievements is in far more abundance than her weaknesses. Maybe if you must say something about her lesser aspects (I know I have), a good rule of thumb would be to maintain the same good/bad proportion in ones comments as there is in her works and life, i.e. much good and little bad. In all cases, good manners alone dictate that she be spoken of with respect, even when presenting criticism - and I am not talking about censorship.

Shayne had a point with that line of yours: "I will admit that parts of IOE make me laugh with embarrassment."

Why the hell did you say it that way in an otherwise playful upbeat post that actually transmitted some rather cool descriptions of your motivations? There are so many other ways to do it that can still be clever, amusing or just plain informative.

Sorry to be on your case, man. Suit yourself on how you want to write. And if you really do have one of those gifts (which I suspect from the wealth of disparate information you possess), I guess I will just have to get used to you. But if not... if you are normal... well... I don't know how to say it nicely... ah hell, then just learn some manners - that is if you want me to continue reading your posts.

btw - I caught your act over at humor. Don't want to break your heart, kiddo, but it needs a little polish...         //:-)

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 3/15, 1:42am)


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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 4:17amSanction this postReply
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To claim we are born with 'gifts' is grotesquely insulting - we are born with abilities, which varies among us, but they are the given of the variance of reality, not any form of any 'gift'....

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:11amSanction this postReply
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Hi Robert,

I don't find the term insulting at all, but then I use it in the popular sense of meaning "talent." What I find particularly good about the word "gift" in this case is that people who are mentally different have normally lived with a stigma of being considered as retarded or whatever. Not good for their self esteem at all. Stating that they have a "gift," or if you don't like the term, a "special talent or ability," shows a willingness to consider them on their own unique terms (imposed by biology) without being another source to them of callous aggravation.

Michael


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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:00pmSanction this postReply
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MSK, others have expressed the same the same frustrations with your friend Mike M.  I am starting to think MM may have Aspergers syndrome, which may explain some things. Just something to chew on... I've never met him personally. 

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:14pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks kat.

My feelings exactly. I like a lot of what I read, but he ain't a friend yet. Still trying to get used to spittle...

Michael


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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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MSK, wearing glasses helps. Be patient, Mike's a nice guy, he just flies circles around my head sometimes when he forgets to come up for air. I didn't mean to be offensive with my last post, it was just an observation, based on some of the stuff I've read because of my kid's autistic disorder. BTW, someone promised me a poem... do I have to send you to the kitchen? 

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:49pmSanction this postReply
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Minnie - I certainly didn't mean any offense to Michael M either. I am seriously curious. I like him, to tell the truth. Sometimes straight talk like I did brings problems into awareness.

There is a whistle that emits a frequency so high that only dogs can hear it. I'm sort of like that with the crazies (and I use this term in a very affectionate sense - some of my finest moments in life have been prompted by - or graced with - their presence).

Well Michael hit that frequency. You did too.

(hey!... don't you dare throw that!).

I'm going to do something I never do - here is the title, but it is still baking: Kat on a Hot Zen Rant.

I won't have too much time to write over the next few days though. My uncle, who is an ordained preacher, is spending a few days here at my parents house to help with new roofing. He gets curious about everything (including "what are you writing?" stuff) and I don't think explaining Objectivism will do anything but create a WHOLE LOT of friction. I am now writing on the sly.

We love you, Michael M. But please don't spit on Ayn.

Michael


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Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 6:48amSanction this postReply
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You promised me "Kat on a Hot Zen Rant" over two weeks ago, Michael. If you are waiting for me to convert to Buddism or something, you are wasting your time. I've only got nine lives, sweetheart. Time to pay the kitty. *purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*

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