| | William Scott Dwyer writes:
There are so many countries in Latin America that are ruled by leftist dictators now that Cuba is just one among many. This collectivist trend does not bode well for the Americas. And I had thought collectivism was on the wane. I wasn't even thinking of our neighbors to the South. -- don't look North then, Bill. Waning it is not.
Be that as it may, which are the "many countries in Latin America that are ruled by leftist dictators now," Bill, in your objective eyes?
Apropos of the item Ted posted, the author is a teensy bit more than a 'lefty blogger' and more than an example of witless Yankee Commies who know nothing valuable.
Lefty indeed, oh yes, very much, but unless being a lefty means nothing out of your mouth deserves a thought, a point or two to consider from the text:
In 2002, RCTV actively encouraged Venezuelans to march toward the presidential palace in order to participate in a coup that was taking place to overthrow the democratically elected president. Marciel Granier gave clear instructions to the managing producer of Venezuela’s most watched news program on the day of the coup that he should not give any information about President Chavez. Actions like this would not be tolerated by the FCC in the U.S.
However, when Chavez returned to power a few days later, no reprisals were taken against the channel.
No, May 27 is not a sad day for freedom of expression in Venezuela, so don’t weep for Mr. Granier when RCTV’s license is not renewed. He can still broadcast through cable or satellite and he can still sell his programming to other stations. Now, I don't know if the detailed events related above in Hardy's piece are true or in proper historical context. I have no reason to support RCTV's owner merely because he is a rich capitalist (and therefore, in some Randonaut fantasy, an angel). And I utterly reject and condemn Chavez Caudilloism -- as I reject a century of previous Venezualan (elected) dictators and pretenses to represent 'the people.'
Still, better know my enemies well and intimately, all my enemies rather than through the cartoons of the media and a stereotyped imagination, or through, well, a talking point on a 'righty' list like RoR.
: - )
Here, for example, a very short list of blog comment on RCTV's lapsed license (this Google Blog Search [in English only] returned 2611 posts). Does any of this cancel out or replace the particular demonic perfidy of Charlie Hardy? do we perceive a whole lot of fiendish demons by function of how much we hate and fear The Devil hisself? I say no, and I say yeah. I remember Salem.
In other words, may I claim to know which of these opinions below is held by a lefty solely by level of distaste? If so, and I think it so, can I know the reporting and opinions are wrong because they are lefty, because I disagree, or because I find them -- upon reflection -- wrong because inconsistent with reality?.
In any case, what do I do if one of these fucking commies has a point or two that I had not yet considered?!
Finally . . . if the fucking commies are wrong in this instance and on this issue, should I bother reading them in depth . . . ?
Things I think about reading this thread.
WSS
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Links and further references from Google Blog Search (I highly recommend including Spanish-language blogs in your own searches, as they are closer to the historical action in many cases)
Is Free Speech Really at Stake? Venezuela and RCTV?24 May 2007 by Renegade Eye
The following day, when mass protests and loyal army units brought back President Chávez, RCTV and other stations blacked out the news, showing movies and cartoons instead. Such actions clearly go beyond protected free speech, ...
Renegade Eye - http://advant.blogspot.com/ - References |
Chavez RCTV Closure Rejected by 70% of Venezuelans, Poll Finds
Venezuelan media crackdown: the other POV
4 hours ago by Xeni Jardin
In Venezuela more than 90% of the media is privately owned and virulently opposed to the Chávez government. RCTV, far from being silenced, is being allowed to continue broadcasting by satellite and cable. In Venezuela, as in Britain, ...
Boing Boing - http://www.boingboing.net/ - References |
Cuba's foreign minister Felipe Perez Roque (C) ...
Chavez Takes the Gloves Off Against RCTV
FAIR On The RCTV Shutdown
2 hours ago by Matthew Good
The story is framed in US news media as a simple matter of censorship: Prominent Venezuelan TV station RCTV is being silenced by the authoritarian government of President Hugo Chávez, who is punishing the station for its political ...
MatthewGood.org - http://www.matthewgood.org |
Television's role in the coup against Chávez
1 hour ago
We believe that the decision of the Venezuelan government not to renew the broadcasting licence of RCTV when it expires on May 27 (Chávez silences critical TV station, May 23; Comment and Letters, May 25) is legitimate given that RCTV ...
WhatReallyHappened.com - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ |
Hugo Chavez, Venezuelan President, Closes Opposition TV Station
27 May 2007 by johnib
Venezuelan television station Radio Caracas Television, RCTV’s general manager, Marcel Granier, right, speaks during an interview backdropped by an image of Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez in Caracas, Sunday, May 27, 2007. ...
Peace and Freedom - http://johnib.wordpress.com |
Those exquisite revolutionary moments: RCTV as the "me, my, mine ...
A Tale of the Romanticism of RCTV and the Demonisation of Chavez
25 May 2007 by korova
The following day, when mass protests and loyal army units brought back President Chávez, RCTV and other stations blacked out the news, showing movies and cartoons instead. Imagine if this were the case in the UK or the US. ...
Mask of Anarchy - http://maskofanarchy.blogspot.com/
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| | There are riots in all the major cities. Not one of the national networks, except for one minor cable outlet (according to FOX) is carrying the news. Chavez has threatened to shut them down for inciting to riot - for covering the rioting.
Ted
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| | Ted: My very good friend Rosa Pelz (Rosa Pelz [rpg@gritosagrado.com.ar]) informed me that http://www.cedice.org.ve/ (Centro de Divulgación del Conocimiento Económico para la Libertad), a Venezuelan non-profit organization promoting the ideas of liberty, who usually orders books from “Grito Sagrado”, the publishers of the Spanish version of Ayn Rand’s books, hasn’t ordered “Virtue” up to now. A separate book distributor - Libros y Libros, headed by a lady called Vicky Dum - ordered a set 50 copies comprising various Rand books.
Rosa Pelz told me that should you or any of the “Rebirth of Reason” members want to ship “Virtue” to Venezuela, to contact her and she will quote the best possible price to, if ordered, then send the books by DHL to whatever address in Venezuela the buyers from “Rebirth” will name, charging for the delivery strictly the DHL rate corresponding to the book’s weight. Grito Sagrado will reply your mail as soon as it arrives. Just mention my name as contact so that Grito knows in what relation the mail received stands.
William Scott Scherk: If there is something that seems to be on the wane it is your knowledge of Latin America. Perhaps someone like me, who lived 47 years in the Latin American area and was even born there, can help to jog your memory back to life.
The “many countries in Latin America that are ruled by leftist dictators now” include, of course, Fidel Castro of Cuba, to whom you can add: Chaves of Venezuela, Kirchner, a follower of Chavez, of Argentina (where I was born), Lula of Brazil and Evo Morales, another Chavista, of Bolivia. Perhaps these five are not sufficient for you to be called “leftist dictators” but they’re enough at least for the productive people living in their countries (against those who slobber for the rulers because they expect to be altruistically fed for free - though Heinlein correctly stated that TANSTAAFL always applies - shouldn’t you know it, it means “There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch”) and they could well do without them. I invite you to have a good look at Alan Tucker’s excellent blog (http://www.aynrandinlatinamerica.blogspot.com/), a man who lives in Latin America, has travelled the area quite a lot and knows perfectly well what’s happening there.
You may not like the RCTV's owner because he’s a rich capitalist and in 2002 his TV station “actively encouraged Venezuelans to march toward the presidential palace in order to participate in a coup that was taking place to overthrow the democratically elected president” but, unfortunately, things run a bit differently in Latin America than they do in the US, where a president (Nixon) has to leave his seat when he’s caught with dirty hands.
Besides, it’s “just a natural” that a left-winger like Charlie Hardy applauds Chavez move against RCTV for Chavez is a left-winger just as much as Hardy is (or can it be that you haven’t noticed this yet?) but, of course, since your comments started with asking Dwyer to name the “many countries in Latin America ruled by leftist dictators now” it’s quite inferable that you don’t consider the dictators I mentioned as being that. Perhaps you consider them to be, on the contrary, enemies of dictatorship and strong defenders of individual liberty, but I might as well be dreaming that a moose is kissing me.
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| | Actually Lula is one of the most capitalist Presidents in Brazilian history. His genius was in getting elected on a leftist agenda, then keeping the left eating out of his hand while going about making Brazil a more-or-less capitalist country (in the manner of current USA capitalism, i.e., somewhat regulated and in essence, but not in detail, along the lines of his predecessor, Fernando Cardoso). He makes deals with some unpleasant people at times, but they are capitalist supply-and-demand type deals. Lula got elected after 3 previous high-profile tries and only after his buzz-phrase turned from leftist jargon to the (roughly translated) "Let's sit down and negotiate." (The hard left cried "Betrayal!" back then, but Lula has even negotiated them into passivity over time.)
His Vice President, José Alencar was elected while being a member of the Liberal Party (similar to Libertarian), since there does not have to be party alignment with candidates in Brazil. Lula, as a left-wing candidate, simply formed an alliance with the extreme right and it worked. Alencar has since transferred to a religious right type party.
Calling Lula a leftist dictator is looking at the names used in the USA press (the form) and not the content. He is about as close to a leftist dictator as FDR was to Stalin.
As to another form versus content problem, in the widespread demonstrations in Venezuela, I would like to say that the people were incensed because of freedom of expression or anti-dictatorship sentiment, but that is not true. It is true only of a few ringleaders. They were clever enough to capitalize on the real beef to make it look like that kind of dissatisfaction, but underneath it was an illusion.
The majority of the people demonstrating got ticked because they loved RCTV soap operas. Even the ones not demonstrating are ticked. How dare Chavez cancel their soap operas?
I'm serious.
Look for some new TV soap operas real fast in Venezuela, and then passivity.
Michael
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| | Mannfred, thanks for the note back on my earlier post -- I deserved that spanking
. Without getting into the depths, that was the stupidest post I have ever written on RoR, bar none. If I could, I would delete it, but it should stand as an example of somebody who blows off a post in the spirit of being contrary . . . without paying attention to reality.
Moreover, it was arrogant beyond belief. Sheesh. Chavez has zero justification for his stomp to power and for his 'un-licencing.' That RCTV may have offered support to the earlier coup attempt provides zero justification for the ugly and reckless actions of El Caudillo. I am with the demonstrators. I will edit my post above to mark out my worst moment.
Slink, slink slink.
WSS
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| | William,
You like soap operas all of a sudden?
//;-)
Michael
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| | William Scott Scherk: It is extremely unusual, even for Objectivists who consider themselves to belong to a special, separate species, to recognize a mistake made. This excellency of human behaviour merits a most special signal of gratitude. Hence, please accept my thanks for your words and I deeply hope that my comments in reply to your earlier post haven't hurt you beyond repair. Let's shake hands thru the Internet as the symbol of friendship that should always rule among Objectivists.
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| | The WSS Wonderful strikes again.
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| | MSK, can you provide a reason why RCTV should be shut down by force by a government? Somehow I don't think that airing shows that people watch in itself is criminal.
Ted
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| | Ted,
You asked: "MSK, can you provide a reason why RCTV should be shut down by force by a government?"
No.
Why do you ask?
(If pressed for an explanation as to why it was shut down, I would say local politics and reprisals, but why it should be shut down, I have no idea. Anyway, I never have been much interested in the politics behind government concessions.)
btw - Airing "shows that people watch" (although that is a very vague characterization) is not criminal. Why do you insinuate anyone thinks it is?
Michael
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| | On FOX news Friday 6/1 it was reported that tens of thousands of people have been marching in the larger cities for days now. I saw banners that said:
Freedom
Liberta
Liberté
Freiheit
Meanwhile an impressive 500 Chavista leftist university students stood and chanted in unison so impressively synchronized that you would think they had been trained in North Korea.
RCTV is broadcasting over YouTube and from across the Columbian border. Brazil and Chile have made formal protestations.
Mike, your statements that this is about people missing their soap operas, not about freedom, are condescending at best. Popular discontent toward a dictator may simmer yet not come to a boil until some precipitating event occurs. This seems perhaps to be that event. Comments belittling people protesting for their freedom - even for their right to enjoy themselves - are bizarre when made by a supposed Objectivist.
Ted Keer
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| | Ted,
Thank you for bringing me down a peg or two. I guess I do get condescending. Over 3 decades in Brazil and I didn't learn a damn thing about Latin mentality, yet I still write what I think. Ain't that something?
I guess you are right. It's the Venezuelan people who are promoting the American view of Chavez, not the demonstration organizers. They just follow the orders of the people. You should know, I guess.
I always learn something new every day...
Michael
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| | Ted,
I wrote another post and I don't know whether it is going to go up or not, but I do want to mention a problem-solving method.
I am thrilled that people in Venezuela are becoming interested in individual rights, etc. I think this should be encouraged. But I do not think the proper way to encourage it is to lie to oneself about what is going on. I learned that this is called evading reality.
If you think that there is a HUGE pro-freedom contingency in Venezuela, there is nothing really to do. Let them do their job because they are almost there. Right? Who you might think is voting for Chavez time and time again, I have no idea.
However, if you recognize what is really going on (the soap operas I mentioned, but there are other issues that might surprise you), you just might get a notion about the real problems the freedom organizers (heroic ones, in my opinion) are facing down there. Rhetoric posted on a website is easier, though, isn't it? It makes you feel good and doesn't cost anything.
(Here's an idea. Let's all pretend that I am a Chavez supporter trying to denigrate the freedom struggle of a romantically oppressed people like you see in the movies. Then some posters who don't like me can say some rude and nasty things and everybody can think they made a blow for freedom. They can then congratulate themselves that they helped the Venezuelans along in their strife and suffering.)
If you want to help, though, really help, please keep reality in mind. Those guys down there have it hard, not just from Chavez but with their own side, and they do need help. Do you have any time, effort or money to provide them with? That's what they need, Ted. Make-believe will not help them.
I personally haven't been in touch with some of my friends in South America for a while because my plate is pretty full right now with a new direction in life. But I can assure you that in Brazil, I did things, pro-freedom things that helped make a difference, not just talk about them. I put my ass on the line more times than I like to remember (and it almost got shot off a few times, too). What have you done for South America, Ted?
btw - I went to blog Manfred mentioned (http://www.aynrandinlatinamerica.blogspot.com/). There was nothing written about Lula being a left-wing dictator. There couldn't be anything either, because he isn't one.
Michael
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| | 
So, at least he's not as bad as Castro?
No, Mike, given that I am currently paying rent on two separate apartments in New York, and had to use up most of my non-IRA savings last year as I recovered from (minor) surgery, and then spent six months on disability at half and no pay, I myself am not in a position to fund any rebellions or even at this moment to buy copies of the newly available Spanish translation of Atlas Shrugged.
I will not be paying double rent after June 17th, so perhaps at that time I can purchase some copies of La Rebelión de Atlas and ship them to sympathetic persons in Venezuela and elsewhere. I know that this is nothing more than the most minor of moral supports, like the coffee and chocolate I periodically have shipped to Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither do I think that my mere posts make any real difference in the world - at least no less of a difference than your mere posts.
I think the underlying problem is that you are sending mixed messages. You say that Lula is the most capitalistic president that Brazil has had. Okay. But why do you say that in this context? And what sort of compliment is it? Is it like saying that Billy Graham is one of the least bigoted of evangelicals? Who brought up Lula?
But back to Venezuela - what exactly does it mean to say that the protesters there "are promoting the American view" of Chavez? Chavez is a demagogue and a thug. This is no one's mere opinion. I speak Spanish, I heard him speak at the UN. I've seen his demonstrations, his NAZI like rallies. He just had one of his opponents from the last "election" and that opponent's wife arrested and beaten up. He is accusing RCTV and other broadcasters of inciting rebellion while he himself has silenced the last private non-pay (broadcast) media outlet in the country, just after seizing the last of the oil industry.
What were Rand's criteria? Censorship? Check. Political Imprisonment? Check. Freedom to emigrate? You tell me, Mike.
I have claimed no special knowledge. You have claimed to know that once the soap operas were back on the air the protest would stop. Perhaps they shall. You claim to know that, what? the protest leaders are agents provocateurs duping the masses into, what? accidentally marching for a freedom that they don't really want? You call that realism and I call it condescension.
You use the term "left-wing dictator" in reference to Lula, the (?) president of Brazil, denying that he is one, and you say that "lying" about the facts down there doesn't help. Who here called Lula a dictator? You protest too much, my lad. I never used the term left-wing dictator (tu dixisti) and I am unaware of anyone here "lying about what is going on down there" in Venezuela, Brazil, or elsewhere. In post #14 I did announce that Brazil has belatedly issued its protests against Chavez. I have no hidden agenda here.
From you I have heard that he's not so bad as he seems, that any criticisms of him are American lies, and that the protestors are American dupes, or the dupes of American dupes. I have heard that it will all be over as soon as the masses forget. You are right that my mere words here are not what matter, thank God, and thank God neither do yours.
Sem nomes insultandos,
Ted
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| | Ted and Michael: On post 17 you say: “Freedom to emigrate? You tell me, Mike.” I can provide the proof that Chavez prohibits people to travel abroad. See http://www.hacer.org/current/Vene136.php. Since in your post you indicate that you speak Spanish and Michael mentions that he was for thirty years in Brazil (the help of a dictionary allows to overcome the differences between Portuguese and Spanish) it will not be difficult to read the letter by Rocío Guijarro S to Otto Guevara (more on THIS Guevara at http://www.aynrandinlatinamerica.blogspot.com/ which I mentioned on an earlier post). Mrs. Guijarro informs that the Venezuelan Court that authorizes or prohibits people to travel abroad forbid her to travel to the Cancún, Mexico meeting of the “Liberal Internacional” and the “Nueva Alianza” party.
It seems that in spite of living for so many years in Latin America Michael is not very well aware of the heavy hand operating there. I myself (please see again the “aynrandinlatinamerica” blog, where Alan Tucker added the information that I introduced Objectivism to Argentina in the 80’s) presented Objectivism at a time when military dictatorships where rampant in Argentina and my wife lived in constant fear that they would pick me up at 3 o’clock in the morning to gun me down. Speaking about “What did you do to promote liberty in Latin America?”…
And in what refers to “Actually Lula is one of the most capitalist Presidents in Brazilian history. His genius was in getting elected on a leftist agenda, then keeping the left eating out of his hand while going about making Brazil a more-or-less capitalist country“. If anything, Lula is, if not a left-wing dictator, at least a chameleon and, thus, an inconstant person not to be trusted. So after using the left-wing Workers' Party, that he himself helped to create, he is now befriending both Chavez and Bush (Chavez a dictator and Bush a fundamentalist “reborn” Christian bigwig unworthy for anything good, unless you would consider that sending soldiers to their untimely death is an Act of Grace - I don’t but then I’m an atheist.) Not a very trustworthy character this Lula is, right? This is shown by the people he selected to surround him, specifically Antônio Palocci as Minister of Finance, which is the single most important member of Brazil's economic cabinet, Palocci being a former trotskyst who lacks knowledge of Economics, and - to balance it out? - Henrique Meirelles, a prominent market-oriented economist as President of the Brazilian Central Bank (and we all know the bad opinion Objectivists have of any “central” bank which is in itself a tool of economic dictatorship). As I would say: Who needs enemies with “capitalistic friends” like these?
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| | Ted,
Using your criteria, we might as well state that all of the USA presidents except, maybe, George Washington, have been tyrants.
You asked about context. I think looking at reality and not fantasy is appropriate for most all contexts except cases of extreme illness or psychosis.
Good luck on your crusade to help the Venezuelans. I look forward to applauding the results.
Manfred,
I give you more of a pass because you actually have done things.
You asked what I have done for freedom. Here is one thing (among several). I was involved in the movement for the 1988 constitution. You might not find that important, but it was.
About Palocci, I am very good friends with his cousin. Irrespective of his past, can you point me to any Trotsky-based policies he implemented as Minister of Finance? From what I knew, until the sex and corruption scandal blew him out of office, he was the darling of the World Bank and IMF. As a matter of fact, I would have to check, but I even remember the Brazilian corporate law changing while he was in office to align the categories of Brazilian legal entities with USA types. (This created pure hell for translators for a while.)
About Meirelles, is your objection to his past education at Harvard, performance at Bank Boston, or things like that, or against central banks in general?
If you really want to strike a blow against central banks, I don't suggest Objectivism straight with no chaser. Think Greenspan at the Fed and all.
Here is a nice little project for you that will produce a real effect. Get the following video (about 47 minutes) dubbed into Castellano and distributed. Argentina, of all SA countries I have observed, has suffered the most with misunderstanding the nature of money. This video is about the best thing out there for a simple explanation. (You can ignore a couple of his conclusions because of the breath-taking achievement of his explanation.)
"Money as Debt"
(I am kind of amused about your statement that I am not aware of the heavy hand operating in South America. You have quite a sense of humor. You're all right for an Argentinian. //;-)
Michael
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