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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 1:31amSanction this postReply
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Timothy Lynch of The Cato Institute writes about the Padilla case:

The federal government has been given a green light to deprive Americans of their rights to due process. No arrest warrants. No trial. No access to the civilian court system. You may not be able to see it on television, but this court decision is the equivalent of a legal hurricane-and it is no exaggeration to say that this is a level 5 storm with respect to its potential havoc for civil liberties.


But this is way too little, way too late. The individual in question was jailed three years ago. George Bush has flat declared himself above the law during war. And since this "war" will go on just about forever (courtesy of him, largely), this means that he and his federal cronies are above the law, and the constitution, and maybe justice itself, forever.

I can't recall a single article on this by The Ayn Rand Institute or The Objectivist Center. I attribute it to: moral depravity and philosophical bankruptcy.



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Post 1

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:38amSanction this postReply
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Bush: Military may have to help if bird flu breaks out

President wants Congress to discuss how to use armed forces

Wednesday, October 5, 2005; Posted: 4:10 a.m. EDT (08:10 GMT)
President Bush said Tuesday he was concerned about an avian flu outbreak. 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush says the possibility of an avian flu pandemic is among the reasons he wants Congress to give him the power to use the nation's military in law enforcement roles in the United States.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/04/bush.avianflu/index.html

According to the U.S. Coast Guard:

Posse Comitatus Act
Source: G-OPL
"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

... and lest you think this is something new -- or a consequence of 9/11:
The Myth of Posse Comitatus
Major Craig T. Trebilcock, U.S. Army Reserve
October 2000

The Posse Comitatus Act has traditionally been viewed as a major barrier to the use of U.S. military forces in planning for homeland defense.[1] In fact, many in uniform believe that the act precludes the use of U.S. military assets in domestic security operations in any but the most extraordinary situations. As is often the case, reality bears little resemblance to the myth for homeland defense planners. Through a gradual erosion of the act’s prohibitions over the past 20 years, posse comitatus today is more of a procedural formality than an actual impediment to the use of U.S. military forces in homeland defense.
 http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm


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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:54amSanction this postReply
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Every time I read news like this, I get flashbacks to Chancellor Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith.

Post 3

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 5:50amSanction this postReply
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I keep thinking of Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler.

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Post 4

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 8:11amSanction this postReply
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Luke S. wrote:
Every time I read news like this, I get flashbacks to Chancellor Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith.
 Actually, the initial propsal for emergency powers came from JarJar Binks in Phantom Menace.  That would be Jar Jar W. Binks, son of Binks, Senior.

(Luke!  Luke! Where are those droids?)

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 10/05, 8:13am)


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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
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Now can we revolt?

Sarah

P.S. The crow flies at midnight.

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Post 6

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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M. Marotta, that Binks bill was actually in Attack of the Clones.

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Post 7

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 9:25amSanction this postReply
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Everyone go out and re-read LP's Ominous Parallels. Right now. First eminent domain, now this. Awesome. Fascism. Can we buy a piece of Canada now and start over?
(Edited by Scott DeSalvo
on 10/05, 9:26am)


Post 8

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 9:44amSanction this postReply
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Sarah, I don't think a revolt is going to cut it. The average Joe has to experience tyranny for himself before he'll raise his fist against it.

Post 9

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 10:04amSanction this postReply
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The crow has been shot down. Repeat, the crow has been shot down.

Sarah

Post 10

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 10:17amSanction this postReply
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Sarah, the remarks about the crow flying at midnight and getting shot have "flown" over my head.  Could you please elaborate?

Post 11

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 10:33amSanction this postReply
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Andre,

You write, "I can't recall a single article on this by The Ayn Rand Institute or The Objectivist Center."

Diana Hsieh, whose web site referenced this article, has been very closely associated with ARI for the last two years. The news item is very recent, and the top ARI people, who had to backtrack hastily written pieces a couple of times before, have become more careful and now usually take some time to write about issues. Give them a few weeks.

As for TOC, I do not expect anything.


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Post 12

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 11:09amSanction this postReply
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Gee Luke - what DO you read outside of flow charts?

Post 13

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 1:52pmSanction this postReply
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This is fear mongering (Adam's specialty at times).  There is a legitimate role for the military in security issues, in the same manner as the police, and there are elements they are good at and times when police forces are overwhelmed or incompetant (New Orleans PD?).


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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 2:10pmSanction this postReply
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Robert Malcom, I read plenty of material outside flow charts.

Since your comment suggests you do also, does it result in your ever having anything useful to say?

If so, please demonstrate by elaborating on Sarah's "crow" comments.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 10/05, 2:34pm)


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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 2:58pmSanction this postReply
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Source unknown to me, crow references are references to certain either spy or military stories.  The crow "flying" means a particular mission is underway or is about to start. It operates as a code word to start the mission.

It's a cliche that gets used in reference to "cloak and dagger" type activities.

Sarah might be able to give you more specific context for it's origins. But I think this should do for now.

---Landon


Post 16

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:06pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Landon, that sheds some light on the ambiguous Google search results I got.  I appreciate your straightforward answer to my honest question.  It stands in stark contrast to some of the smarmy and useless "answers" that occasionally pollute SOLO, including one recently in this thread.

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Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Landon - sorry hadn't gotten back sooner - was out baking a cake for a birthday party [no, not mine, a youngster's 10th]... Had thought most would have known of that, from all the spy and military books around - and revolutionary war movies and such... even Max Smart made use of it if my memory is right, and it was used as a coding by the Swamp Fox. - but then, have to agree not everyone is into 'founding fathers' lore.  where she got her reference from, you'll have to have her answer...

Post 18

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:21pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks Luke.  Cliches are probably hard to catch in google searches. Don't be too hard on the others, it's kind of a well known cliche so some people probably couldn't believe you didn't actually know.

Also Robert thanks for the historical perspective.

---Landon


Post 19

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 - 3:58pmSanction this postReply
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[begin transmission]

The chair is against the wall.
I repeat. The chair is against the wall.

The door is ajar.
The door is ajar.

The pretty girl is in the garden.

That is all.

[end transmission]

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