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Post 20

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
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I've been working with a group from my company that is based about 40 minutes outside of London. One of them lives in London itself, but I've had word he is ok. I'm supposed to be flying over there Tuesday. Having just visited London a couple of months ago, I recognized some of the tube stations as ones I'd recently passed through. We never know how close we are walking to danger.

Ethan


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Post 21

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:07amSanction this postReply
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This calls for justice. Will humankind have the integrity to terminate not just the end-cogs in the terror machine, but the political and "spiritual" echelon of the enemies of human civilization?

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Post 22

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:08amSanction this postReply
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QUOTE OF THE DAY
 
'Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear ' Tony Blair


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Post 23

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:11amSanction this postReply
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I'm so glad our British Soloist friends are safe and well. I've been checking on other friends in London, and so far, so good.

Whatever the problems with the Scotland meetings, Bush was right when he pointed out the bitter irony that leaders are meeting to combat hunger while terrorists are murdering the innocent.

I know we all feel the same sick rage at the enormity of the terrorists' evil. Too bad there isn't a hell where they can suffer as they've made others suffer.

Barbara

Post 24

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:17amSanction this postReply
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Someone said we should not be posting elsewhere while ignoring this live thread. I didn't post my anger immediately - instead I stormed off around the house. It would all have been swear words and calls for nuclear action so there wasn't much missed.

Marcus,

Reading through the posts I was about to tell you to stop playing games and to hurry the hell up and post that you're OK. Glad to get down to your post and see you're OK.

If anyone is wondering, Andrew Bissell is in NYC this week and I am trying to get in touch with him to meet for lunch.

Joel,

I understand Islam is evil but appreciate the links you posted. Thanks. Perhaps we could have a list of anti-Islam sources somewhere in the war room so we could reference them when writing letters to editors, etc.


Post 25

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
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That's a good question Adam. Faith and Force are seen to be at work in the world every day. It remains to be seen what will happen. When will reason and rationality be the primer movers of a majority of the world?

Ethan


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Post 26

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:25amSanction this postReply
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President Bush:

The war on terror goes on. I was most impressed by the resolve of all the leaders in the room. Their resolve is as strong as my resolve. And that is we will not yield to these people, will not yield to the terrorists. We will find them, we will bring them to justice, and at the same time, we will spread an ideology of hope and compassion that will overwhelm their ideology of hate.

We will win!


Post 27

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:34amSanction this postReply
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I'm glad that everyone is okay.  Its very comforting to know that our little online community looks out for its members. 

Stay safe and shine on.

Kat


Post 28

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:35amSanction this postReply
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I’m glad to hear the SOLOists are accounted for and unharmed. Thanks, Matthew for keeping everyone informed.

I read the G8 leaders have united against these SOBs. Let’s hope it doesn’t fade away in the coming weeks as it usually does. Let’s retain the righteous anger as we fight on!


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Post 29

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 8:41amSanction this postReply
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It seems the authorities in London are hoping to have the Underground (subway rail) up and running again as early as tomorrow. Some other public transport companies are apparently already starting to resume services. This is what we Brits call a "two fingers gesture".

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Post 30

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 9:16amSanction this postReply
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The Islamic terrorist attacks are bewildering the Western World for neither the governments nor the population seem to understand the reason behind it. Ayn Rand already explained this many years ago when she spoke of the hate against the good for being the good. Islam is trying to destroy the Western World for it so starkly shows all the filth, the dismay, the miserableness and despondency of the way of life which Islam promotes for all its followers. This is clearly described in „Time Out of Joint“, an article by Professor Sadik J. Al-Azm as published by the Boston Review (www.bostonreviw.net/BR29.5/alazm.html) and the Webpage of the FaithFreedom.org (http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sinaprologue.htm) to which Joel Català called the attention in this thread.

 

Does the Western World have the power to solve this terrorist problem? It does, as I will detail below, but it requires courage and determination.

 

First of all it must be perfectly understood that the Islamists living in the Western World came to the Western nations because they were attracted to this way of life due to the promise it offered of bettering one’s own wellbeing. The Islamists came because they were not satisfied with the conditions existing in the Islamic countries and wanted to better their economic situation. Nothing wrong about this, since it is always good to see individuals straining to better the situation of their existence. But they should have left their beliefs where they came from, for a different way of life is so because it is based on other premises. To mix the premises will always produce a contradiction in terms (here we have Rand again).

 

Basically the problem of Islamic terrorism should, thus, be solved by the immigrated Islamists and their children and great-children themselves. But they don’t do anything about it. They operate their shops, etc. that are frequented by the Western population and, most probably, even support the terrorists with part of what they earn, perhaps because they secretly endorse what terrorists are doing or, else, because they are racketed by the terrorists themselves. It could also be a mix of both possibilities. 

 

One of possible measures to move Islamist themselves to operate against the Islamic terrorism (but this involves in each case a personal decision) is NOT to buy anything from any Islamist nor hold any contact with any of them. This is MY small, personal way of fighting against the Islamic terror. The reader may now smile at such an apparently inconsequential procedure. Truly it is so, but it gives me and my family the personal satisfaction that we do NOT promote the Islamic terror. If many people were to proceed likewise the results would be noticed in a fast and most amazing way… But, as I said, this depends on a personal, individual decision…It could just as well be applied to eliminate dictatorship in China, for example…

 

There is another way of fighting the problem: Throw all Islamites out from every country of the Western World. No, no violence is involved here. On the contrary, Western governments could even prepare lists of the names and further personal data of the Islamites that must leave the country where they live and give them a documentation declaring that they will be allowed to re-enter the country they are leaving once the problem of the Islamic terrorism has been solved and the Islamic countries agree in WRITING to cease any attack against the Western World.

 

Is this unjust? Far less unjust that the killing that Islamic terrorists are spreading among the peaceful, productive Western population. Besides, this could by no means be compared to any of the unfortunately famous fascist procedures of racist elimination for no elimination at all is involved here. No Islamist would be killed. He would merely be obliged to leave the country of residence. You would then see how fast THEY would be willing to solve a problem whose effects are suddenly affecting THEM.

 

And in what refers to any terrorist captured I would welcome the return of the death penalty (American fashion, i.e. putting the culprit to sleep and then administering a lethal dose of poison) for I myself define the death penalty as follows: „The death penalty is the time delayed execution of the self-defense by the representatives of the victim or victims who, at the time of the incidence and due to the circumstances involved, were unable to defend him/themselves personally against the murderous attack.“

 

Is this a naive way of looking of what is happening to the Western World? Just as “naive“ as any other Objectivist way of handling evilness, I would say.


Post 31

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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Yes, but what do you want to do? Wage more war? Obviously, war hasn't change anything, but shifted the next attacks to europe...

No, we must show resolve and live our lifes to the fullest, even in face of terrorists. You can't destroy terrorism by bombing countries, because terrorists are no countries. They are in countries, but they are no valid targets.

My best wishes go to all of you who live around London. This is certainly a tragic day, but with time we will defeat them, like we will stop the terror in Ireland.


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Post 32

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 9:21amSanction this postReply
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These terrorists are real assholes. Stupid assholes too. What they did was just kill people. Nothing more.

They did not advance their cause. They probably set it back even more. One of my first thoughts on hearing this, after the wave of blind anger subsided for a minute, was, "There goes Iran."

Stupid, stupid, stupid murdering assholes!

I am relieved our Solo people (and their friends and family) are well and missed this disaster.

Michael


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Post 33

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 10:25amSanction this postReply
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Manfred,
 
Thank you for your coment on the link I posted. I think it's unvaluable, along with jihadwatch and memritv.
 
However, your first link directs us to an obscure article. There, the author says:
 
"As for the current tensions, suspicions, confrontations, and enmities that characterize the relationship of Islam to the West, they are certainly not purely affairs of the spirit, or simply clashes of religious ideas or theological interpretations, or merely matters of beliefs, values, images, and perceptions."
 
That's misguiding: this war is not "purely", but mainly, a clash of values. It's more exactly a war of aggression (jihad is the exact name) of Islam against the non-Muslim world. Be aware that it's not only against the West: I recall here Darfur, southern Philippines, or Thailand --countries without an "imperialistic" past to be blamed of--, its beliefs and values.

America and the allies reacted in self-defense, and against jihad, while the EU is appeasing Islam.

 
The current problem is, as Ali Sina writes in his article "Why Good Muslims Become Terrorists", that
 
"We are being hit one blow after another and not only don’t we know how to defend ourselves we even don't know what is hitting us."
 
Today, the world leaders apparently remain clueless, or deeply misguided, about the ideology of the enemy.
Neither President Bush, nor Prime Minister Blair, nor Putin, have named the ideology of the enemy, which is Islam; or even the strategically more convenient term jihadi terrorism, but only an obscure "terrorism". They should say that this is a war of self-defense against jihad.

 The first premise to follow in order to win this war is to know thy enemy, to know what the enemy stands for, and what's his worldview and way of thinking. I suggest you to read this article, which is Ali Sina's Letter to Mankind. It's a step to understand why the jihadists murder innocent people with a smile in the face.

A second step would be, in example, to read Hugh Fitzgerald's suggestions on what to do for the self-defense of the West: that is, to counter the jihad.

Let's know the hard, tough truth, and then warn our representatives, compelling them, in example, to meet Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina.

Best wishes,

Joel Català

(Edited by Joel Català on 7/07, 10:33am)


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Post 34

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 10:28amSanction this postReply
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I am relieved our Solo people (and their friends and family) are well and missed this disaster.
Thanks Michael and others. I recently moved closer to London and now cycle to work every day, so I wasn't near the Tubes at the time.  I know at least two other London SOLOists cycle to work as well. Fortunately it seems none of my friends or colleagues were hurt.

It must have been horrific down there on the Tube. Despite the "Dianafication" of British culture, as some people have called it, I am confident the British will not cower in the face of this like the Spanish and others did.


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Post 35

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 10:57amSanction this postReply
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MSK wrote:

"I am relieved our Solo people (and their friends and family) are well and missed this disaster."

Ditto. My heart goes out to the victims of this monstrous crime.

I have no doubt that London itself will continue on without missing a beat - it's people have shrugged off far worse in their history.

Let us hope that Scotland Yard and MI5 locate remaining scum quickly. I would hate for the SAS to have to stay up past their bedtime waiting to deal with these pricks.


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Post 36

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 11:04amSanction this postReply
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If the leaders of the civilized world have any balls left, we should hear from them a "London Declaration" in the coming hours:

From this point on, terrorists and their "political" and "spiritual" leaders shall have no sanctuary anywhere on Earth. Not in Saudi Arabia, not in Iran, not anywhere. Justice on Earth, and the survival of human civilization, demand no less.

And we humans must demand nothing less from our leaders.

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Post 37

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 11:13amSanction this postReply
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I just read tubes were up and running by the afternoon, and all bodies accounted for.  Go UK.  Blair is a hero.  Major fuck you.  Will be lost on them though.  There is so much insanity at the root of this, the only way is to deal by force.  It is our responsibility to render moral judgment every day.  Hopefully, we'll see some real leadership rise out of this.  The weaklings are saying "look what happens when you attack a people," that can work both ways.

Duncan, thank you for getting this up so quickly.

Hurray, that all and ours are safe. 

Julia


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Post 38

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 12:03pmSanction this postReply
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Let's not forget the words of MP George Galloway (implicated for taking money from Saddam in the Oil for Food Scandal) said while bodies were still being pulled from the tubes.
 
"We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such warnings."

For those of you tempted to just blame the war in Iraq for this, Galloway actually undercuts your position by stating that it was fighting Bin Laden in Afghanistan too that caused this.  They attack us for who we are, not for what we do. 

Some have even speculated that this may be tied to the trial of Abu Hamza, the blind hate-preaching Imam, that started on Tuesday in London.  Now they'll say even the law enforcement approach to fighting terrorism causes terrorism.  Some will eventually be calling for us to put our women in Burkahs and face Mecca to avoid future attacks.


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Post 39

Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 12:13pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for your well-wishes everyone, both publicly and privately.

Thanks also for your condemnation and outrage at these attacks. I applaud your expressions of defiance and repulsion at such cowardly terrorism.

They wanted to bring London to its knees, but Tony Blair and the plucky British spirit will not cower before terrorist thugs!

It just so happens that I will be travelling into London this Saturday and again on Monday by public transport. Business as usual. The Islamic militants can go fuck themselves!


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