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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 3:45amSanction this postReply
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So, it is about bringing democracy to the Middle East and not Liberty. As I thought before the war, today Democracy and Liberty are often misunderstood. While the Western civilisation tends to view Liberty and democracy as united, the Muslims obviously saw the disconnection of both and decided likewise...

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 5:12amSanction this postReply
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Why should this article surprise? After all, Islam is a political ideology founded by a warrior-leader with a mission to dominate the world – which Muslims believed they had achieved 100 years after its founding. Given that conservatives believe ethics rests on religion, what advice could they offer for the foundation of a society and its legal structure?

I’ve been harping on this issue here, here and here. In the last link, one Mr. Apostolou of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, seems to relish the thought of a faith-based democracy.

On the other hand, Binswanger believes Bush has the right stuff. And Tracinski is sanguine; he sees hope in Sistani.


Post 2

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:40amSanction this postReply
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Jason, I checked the Binswanger link, and I agree with Binswanger that a president's mere use of the term "individual rights" is wonderful.

But, in your explanation, you go a step further: you say that Binswanger says that Bush has the right stuff--but let's keep actions and words apart (mixing these is, always has been, and always will be, lethal in political arenas).

I've got to hand it to Bush for saying the right things (all Bushisms aside!). I mean heck, some of the stuff he says is damn-near self-evident upon reflection: Freedom IS the anti-dote to Terror!

I just have trouble with the lofty aim (a perpetual, global war--funded by US taxpayers) and the heretofore "homeland results" (the largest increase in government in my entire lifetime).

Ed

Post 3

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:01amSanction this postReply
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That's the capital problem, Ed. It is exactly what many people discussing Mr. Bush forget, that it is the Deeds and its consequences that can prove a man to be a liar.

Or as one of my favorite writers put it:

"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie."

Thus I have seen Bush mix up democracy and liberty too often and seen the results in domestic policies. I can't believe that he'd be the person to bring individual rights to the Middle East and still conserve its meaning..


Post 4

Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 4:58amSanction this postReply
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Iraqis are currently having a debate on the role of Sharia in the legal system of their country. It's more nuanced than one might think.  Sharia law is typically identified in our media with the horrifying system of corporal punishments the Wahabis have exported around the world, but those are features of Saudi tribal law, rather than of Sharia per se, which is basically an amalgam of Roman law with Islamic precepts and a wide variety of other influences and decisions.  The outcome of the debate could be quite bad, as there is a minority of Iraqis who want just the sort of horror we have witnessed as "Islamic justice" in a variety of places.  It could also end up with a more pluralistic legal order, in which people could choose forms of adjudication, a variety of Islamic processes among them.  Or it could result in a strongly secular legal system that is "inspired" by Islamic tradition as a major source of law, as people sometimes say that American law is "inspired" by a "Judeo-Christian" heritage.  (The leading candidate for prime minister, who is often identified as an advocate of Sharia, insists that it is a woman's freedom to choose to cover her hair or not, and that what decision she makes is not a matter for the law.)  We shall see, but so far I am optimistic that the Iraqis will avoid the horrors of both Saudi Arabia and its enemy Iran, which have embraced two versions of Islamic law that are at odds with civilized values. 

Post 5

Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Of course, the shariah in itself is not really a problem, it is the kind of interpretation that dominates the Middle East that causes a problem.
And it has come to be seen as the only type of sharia that is strictly imposed in a state-system. Despite the notion of many intellectuals of the Arab world, who claim that the sharia is not applied in the right way, the regimes in the Middle East continue to do it their way (perhaps out of tradition, perhaps out of powerlust).
We don't know what exactly will come of this talks, but given the recent election and the majority of the Shiites leaning towards an Iran-like application, it is very likely to be the strongly repressive form.

The question and the consequential problem lies with the reaction of the US occupation force. Will they tolerate an application of the restrictive sharia or will they interfere?


Post 6

Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 8:59amSanction this postReply
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Tom,

Your post provides in one paragraph much more insight into what "Sharia" is and might be than I have seen in months of reading the sensationalist-leaning, yellow journalism-oriented, anti-intellectual, body count-obsessed mainstream press.

I wonder if another possibility to add to your list might be the "split the baby" option. Federalism or varying legal systems, i.e., different degrees of religious law in the Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish sectors?

I also wonder: There are often vague references to 'secular' Iraqis. What percentage of the population is that?

--Philip Coates
(PS, as a teacher of history who knows how dry it can be, I very much enjoyed your lively talk at San Jose State a month or so ago. The best history teacher I ever had was Forrest McDonald at Brown years ago.)

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 9:35amSanction this postReply
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I also wonder: There are often vague references to 'secular' Iraqis. What percentage of the population is that?

I wonder about that as well. I saw one quote that put Communists in 1950s Iraq at 1 million. How many transformed into Baathists? What about the inclinations of the new generation? I haven’t come across any reliable stats of present-day Iraq. Most of the anecdotal information suggests a tentative estimate of roughly 50%. If anyone has some decent info, I’d appreciate it.

Post 8

Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:18amSanction this postReply
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Hi Michael,

I think I can live with being disreputable and non-respectable. Please don't let the word get around in Objectivist circles but I've also been known to dance during philosophy lectures and wear white shoes after Labor Day.

--Oops. This was posted to the wrong thread. This doesn't have anything to do with Sharia Law...well, actually, maybe it does (Phil)--
(Edited by Philip Coates
on 3/24, 11:22am)


Post 9

Friday, March 25, 2005 - 10:08amSanction this postReply
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Those who are unaware of what exactly the term Shariah entails allow me to give an explanation.  Islamic Law (Shariah) is based upon two primary sources.  There is first the Holy Quran, and second the Hadith.  The Quran is the Islamic holy book (supposedly passed DIRECTLY from Allah into the mind of Muhammad) and the Hadith are various sayings and accounts of the life of Muhammad.  His life (the Sunnah) according to Islamic theology is supposed to act as a clear model for all muslims to follow.  These two elements provide the structure for determining proper Islamic law.   Those given the task of evaluating the Quran and Hadith and making legal judgements (fatwas) are the Islamic clerics (known as Imams, Sheiks, Mullas, Ayatollas ect).  These Islamic scholars are thus given the power to determine the proper interpretation of Islamic tradition and MUST base their judgements primarily on evidence from these sources.   The primary difference between Sunni and Shiite Islam is that in Sunni Islam the leading clerics can come from any background and are simply people who are deemed to be well versed in Islamic law and legal judgements (or who are politically powerful or popular).  On the other hand, the major Shia clerics (the Ayatollas) are supposed to be direct decendents of Muhammad.  Thus in Iran the leadership is (supposidly) descended from the Prophet. 

Now the reason an explanation like this is important is that I don't think you can make a comparison between the supposed influence of Judeo-Christian tradition in the creation of American government and the imposing of any element of the Shariah on Iraq.  This is for two reasons.  The first is that if you do so there is no way for any legitimate separation of state and religion and in essence the religion (and its clergy) have a hand in directly dictating the policies of the state.  The second is that under the Shariah there is no possibility for any clarity when defining what the individual rights of the citizens are.  Islamic Law is, by its nature aggressively collectivist.  Therefore, the group that is in power (the majority) will be able to impose its own  variation, degree and methodology of religious totalitarianism upon the collective whole.  This totalitarianism may be "moderate"  or it may be "fundamentalist" but it will still allow for Islamic clerics (past and present) to dictate to some degree, and with the threat of force the actions of the entire nation.   This is I think a precise definition of a Theocracy.  I certainly hold the hope (and have some optimism) that Iraq will at some point disband Islamic Law in favor of a secular, individual rights oriented system but until they do the country will be controlled by various tribal and religious groups wanting to impose their interpretation of the Shariah.

 - Jason


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