RoR: Forum

Thanks for posting this, Barbara. It's amazing to see the truth spoken without equivocation or apology.

In his book "How Democracies Perish", Jean-Francois Revel discusses, among other things, the constant appeasement by Europe of communism (read: Russia) throughout the second half of the twentieth century. (This was interesting reading for me, as I was only about 11 when the USSR collapsed.) Looks like Europe is keeping this terrible tradition alive.

Barbara, thanks for keeping a keen eye out for articles of such honesty and courage.

Jason

Post 1

Monday, March 7, 2005 - 9:30pm

Very one sided. Not a mention of W's torture camps, loss of habeus corpus and other freedoms. No mention of the 500,000 deaths caused by Americas pre-war sanctions or the 100,000 civilian deaths of this latest war of aggression. The WW11 analogy is too simplistic by half. The war didn't save the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis but a more liberal immigration policy by both Europe and the USA may well have. Islam is dreadful but should be defeated by demonstrating a better philosophy, not by unleashing the dogs of war.

Post 2

Monday, March 7, 2005 - 9:43pm

This is powerful stuff, Barbara. Thank you for posting it, and a huge "Bravo!" to the courageous Mr. Dapfner!

Post 3

Monday, March 7, 2005 - 10:04pm

Number 6....hmmmm....I'll go easy on you, since I once shared your sentiments, something I am not proud of. I once, on another forum, compared a frequent poster here to Hitler, with the same intent as your post. If I could go back in time, I'd punch myself in the jaw.

W's torture camps? Yeah, sure. When people are being beheaded, I am not going to cry for a guy wearing panties on his head. At least he still has a head. I've seen worse "torture" in frat house pranks.

I have my own issues with the American government, the same ones that Rand had. But this war (on terrorism) is one of the few things that I can say that the government SHOULD be doing. The proper role of government is to protect individuals from other individuals, and against aggression from foreign invaders.
You can criticize techniques and mistakes, if you want to defend your country better; you can even say the U.S. made mistakes in the past by arming Iraq, etc..And yes, ultimately, a philosophical war of ideas is required for long term change. But in the meantime, I'm not waiting for a terrorist to see the error of his ways; and any mistakes our government has made will hold me back from defending myself. Whatever my criticisms of the American government (as opposed to America itself), I have to give credit where credit is due. It's doing the job; the fact that we have not had another Sept. 11th is proof of that.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 3/08, 2:35pm)

Post 4

Monday, March 7, 2005 - 11:18pm

Where do I vote for this man?!

Finally, a European leader who "gets it".

A man who is not huddling amongst the smelly yet respectable leftist intellectuals who run this place. The appeasing cowardly bastards. The unthinking bleating anti-American reactionaries who are the true philosophical children of the followers of Hitler.

When will Europe wake up to the fact that if left to our own devices, defences and spineless politicians we would still be in the hands of murdering fascists and dictators?

When will we realise that our past will again become our future if nobody is prepared to stand up for the moral superiority of western civilisation and against the thuggishly clever beasts that seek to destroy it?

God Bless America. Although I am an atheist, I just keep thinking that these days. Thank you, thank you, thank you that you exist, as an idea and a reality, an example and a promise. Thank you to the framers of the constitution, the wisdom of liberty that has still survived in the hearts of so many American people, and especially, thank you for this latest generation of men and women that are fighting for my values in the Middle East as their mainly Anglo-Saxon forefathers did for us in Europe.

How can I ever thank you enough, "America"?

Post 5

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 1:20am

One phrase leaped off the article's page at me:

"Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass."

In this context, I don't think "materialistic" means "capitalism-materialistic." It seems more a complaint against the scrambling for gains in personal household affairs only type mentality when confronted by important social issues.

There is no doubt as to what Matthias Dapfner means by "moral compass" though. He means the American flavor of right and wrong.

Really nice news post, Barbara.

Michael

Post 6

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 1:20am

David,

Thank you for your understanding! And a fellow Atheist "Amen!" to your *contemptuous* words for the "true philosophical children of the followers of Hitler." Yes.

Very moving article also. It helps that I am studying for an International Relations midterm... it was a wonderful addition to my studies about WWI & II. I was able to stop and think for a moment about the triumphs of Liberty and it's great promise for the future... I hope we can make it farther than we've ever been down this path.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Nicki T.

Post 7

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 1:27am

Well, even a blind man can catch a falling egg....

To set things straight, this CEO is a supporter of our version of the Hawks. He has already published an essay that has given us 10 points why George W. Bush is a great president.
Perhaps I only want to counter contemporary "Anti-Imperialism" or as he sees it "Anti-Americanism". Maybe he even believes that Bush is a great man and does all that he would do in W position.

However, there are two issues that make his words not very credible. He either is an Ellsworth Toohey, or he is more like the owner of this daily newspaper from Fountainhead, right ideals, but a coward in the end.
First, he has also postulated pieces that say the total opposite in the past. Second, he also publishes the "Bild"-Zeitung and I wouldn't even call that a news medium any more.
It's shortsighted, as unobjective as one can get, and the incarnation of a pop-newspaper without any consistency at all.
The Welt is even more Republican Right than even the FAZ. These are numerous issues that support my opinion that you should judge people by what they do, not what they say on one occassion...

P.S.:

I wouldn't call it cowardice, but rather scepticism. Also, we have no obligation (as any Democratic Liberal Government - in regard to Objectivist ideas) to enter any war whatsoever, if we decide it is not in our interest.

Post 8

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:35am

Thanks for posting that Barbara. Sometimes when you think you�re the only one who thinks that way (or one of the few), it heartwarming to see a passionate and articulate voice saying what has to be said. When I worry that everyone is willfully blind, I see someone using their eyes and it reminds me not lose hope. Europe is facing a greater internal threat than we are. I believe they will wake-up. But I hope it is with sane rational intellectual leadership and not via some demagogue. This guy gives me hope.

Post 9

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:49am

Max - In this specific context it doesn't matter to me if the author has changed his mind or if he's a hypocrite or if the article represents his true opinion on the subject. The point is that the words he spoke are uplifting, needed, and most of all, true.

Jason

Post 10

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 6:51am

Yes, I grant that. There is truth in it, that is never spoken in Germany (or Europe). I believe in this one instant, I can agree with him. But still, there is no obligation to make the same moves or the same choices as the US, because there are many ways to achieve the same goals, some are just better. I don't think that an extended war against every dictator and Muslim Theocracy in Middle East will solve anything.
I don't think that Appeasment is a good idea, but I also reject such a simplist notion. I am against tolerance for all the Islamic religious ideas in Germany, but they may do what they want in their countries.

I think Bush and Reagan were strong politicians and they spoke their mind clear and direct (as I like it), but the MEANS they used to get their ends, where dubious and the effects not at all good. There is a major difference between Appeasment, Isolation-Denunciation and Blind intervention. For Example, why didn't he attack North Korea? Why didn't he clean up Somalia (big Islamic community)? No, it had to be Iraq...

Also, it gives me a sense of sanity to hear such words from someone, who usually postulated on the right edge of the CSU, or in the "Bild"-Zeitung. If someone like him feels the urge to speak out, then I see a chance for Europe.

(Edited by Max on 3/08, 6:56am)

Post 11

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 7:20am

Great post, Barbara. I've noted it today on my blog.

Post 12

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 9:06am

Of course you did, Robert.

Post 13

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 9:25am

Jennifer, I get your drift. You are implying that I am a shameless self-promoter. But I have a long way to go to catch up to Sciabarra.

;^)

Post 14

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 9:28am

Robert said: Jennifer, I get your drift. You are implying that I am a shameless self-promoter. But I have a long way to go to catch up to Sciabarra.

Give it up, that would take a life span of 200 years, and perhaps 2 or 3 more reincarnated lives.

Post 15

Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 12:17pm