RoR: Forum

Incredible article! It should be a satire, but unfortunately it isn't. Americans are manic without being depressive? It's not hard to decide who really is nuts.

Barbara

Post 1

Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:05am

The statistics say that worldwide 1.1% of the population has schizophrenia, yet only 0.72% in the US.

Maybe the author is still correct. Maybe the figure in the US is lower because many Americans do not have the life-inhibiting positive symptoms of schizophrenia.

On a personal note, I have practically all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia to a certain degree. My sisters and father are kind of like me. One of my sisters was quite unhappy last Christmas because my family barely shows love. My older brother has positive symptoms (he is manic-depressive and suffers from paranoid delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech).

One day I might develop positive symptoms. I hope not. Only time will tell. From my past, it seems like I have always been one of the most creative and had the highest self esteem of my peers... heh. Lets see what I can do with my crazyness.

Thanks,
Dean

Post 2

Monday, February 21, 2005 - 11:42am

"Hypomanics are brimming with infectious energy, irrational confidence, and really big ideas. They think, talk, move, and make decisions quickly. Anyone who slows them down with questions 'just doesn't get it.' " They find it hard to sit still, channel their energy "into the achievement of wildly grand ambitions," feel a sense of destiny, "can be euphoric," have a tendency to overspend, take risks, and act impulsively, and with poor judgment. They are "witty and gregarious" and possess a confidence that makes them charismatic and persuasive."

Huh?

Therefore, normal people have irrational fears, are indecisive, lack confidence, lack vision, are sluggish, sit around all day feeling depressed, think small and penny pinch!!!

Maybe in the 21st century with the celebration of mediocrity, "success" will start to be diagnosed as a mental disorder?

(Edited by Marcus Bachler on 2/21, 12:28pm)

Post 3

Monday, February 21, 2005 - 11:12pm

Regarding what Marcus quoted above:

What an enormous pile of horse shit.

Talk about package dealing. So if someone has bundles of energy, rational confidence, and really big ideas, what does that make them?

One must take risks to make the big dollars, unless Daddy has left behind a big trust fund; there is no other way to do it. It does not necessitate irrational spending and the other nonsensical behaviors this poor excuse of an author has listed.

If my virtues makes me 'nuts', I'll happily put on my straitjacket and laugh all the way to the bank.

That will prevent me from swinging by the author's house to give him a punch in the mouth.

Post 4

Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 7:31pm

From the review: "It's a fun read. But Gartner's diagnosis overlooks the more rational factors that were crucial to the settling of America and the construction of our unique economic and business culture."

The thesis and its criticism both have an element of truth. It is easy to point to the "rational" factors that lead to immigration, but, basically, you have to be crazy in the first place to think that immigration is a rational alternative to doing what has been proved to work for thousands of years.

Jennifer Iannolo wrote: "So if someone has bundles of energy, rational confidence, and really big ideas, what does that make them?"

Deluded. If you think that your enthusiasm is rational, that just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are. At least, that would be a logical conclusion, given the premise. It does not mean that you will not be successful. Success -- however defined -- is usually a combination of factors. If success could be bottled, it would have been long before now. However, being able to see past what most people regard as "common sense" is critical to success, especially for any entrepreneur.

For instance, I have a real estate license in Michigan. The infrastructire of real estate as a commercial enterprise is medieval and highly regulated both by governments at all levels as well as by the Board of Realtors and other guilds that are anathema to true capitalism. Succcessful realtors have many fine attributes. They work hard, for one thing. However, they are not rewarded for thinking outside the box. Real estate rewards people for common sense. Common sense.

One source of the constant friction between America and the rest of the world is that unless you came here to get away from there, you have no idea what America is all about. America contradicts the common sense of billions of people over thousands of years.

It has been suggested that one reason that California is the way it is is that as people moved westward, the ones who could form communities did, while the fruits and nuts kept moving west until they hit the coast.

And that is all fine, as far as it goes. As noted in the review, however, there is farther to go to get a complete understanding.

Post 5

Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 8:50pm

Deluded. If you think that your enthusiasm is rational, that just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are. At least, that would be a logical conclusion, given the premise.

Which is why the premise is ridiculous.

My enthusiasm is perfectly rational, given my knowledge of my abilities. That entrepreneurs apply common sense in an uncommon way to solve a problem has nothing to do with being deluded, or out of touch with reality. That they are excited about it to the point that they will go 24 hours without eating or sleeping because they are in the midst of a breakthrough in their ideas does not make them insane. It's what moves the world forward.

If I were deluded, I'd want to win American Idol.

Post 6

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:52am

Michael, are you just trying to drive us crazy?

Michael E. Marotta wrote: "basically, you have to be crazy in the first place to think that immigration is a rational alternative to doing what has been proved to work for thousands of years."

Some non-crazy reasons: potato famine, religious/government/etc oppression, long unsuccessful life in current country, known opportunity in US, friends in US, enemies in homeland...

Michael E. Marotta wrote: "Deluded. If you think that your enthusiasm is rational, that just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are. At least, that would be a logical conclusion, given the premise."

What is the premise that makes enthusiasm irrational?

Thanks,
Dean

Post 7

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 8:10am

Dean,

Michael, are you just trying to drive us crazy?

You are not alone. To prevent myself from nauseousness and craziness, I've since stopped reading most of Michael's posts.

Post 8

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 8:36am

The author conflates hypomania (which is characterized by poor judgement and irrational impulsivity), with rational, optimistic, purposeful value seeking. High energy does not equate with mania.

Post 9

Saturday, March 5, 2005 - 8:04am

I'm the author of the Hypomanic Edge, the book you are discussing. If you are interested, I address most of the issues you raise in my introduction, which can be read on-line on my website
http://www.hypomanicedge.com/

Then, if you still want to call me an idiot, go ahead--

John Gartner, Ph.D.
assistant professor of psychiatry
Johns Hopkins University Medical School

Post 10

Saturday, March 5, 2005 - 9:28pm

Dr. Gartner,

I read the introduction to your book, and I am still not seeing how the issues you raised add any further meaning to the quote about hypomanic entrepreneurs. Certainly, there is a 'disclaimer' that such people are not technically 'crazy', but the picture painted is still one of ADD-riddled people. The story about the five-word business plan paints a picture of overconfidence and irrational exuberance.

As an entrepreneur, I am extremely hyper, and do exhibit some of the traits you describe. However, my thoughts are always based in reason, and I have cultivated the discipline to see the worthy ideas through. Yes, it does require a little bit of craziness to live with this kind of risk every day, but if you are trying to convey some other meaning than the one you have, I'd like to know where I missed it.

Jennifer Iannolo

Post 11

Sunday, March 6, 2005 - 4:57am

"Hypomanics are not crazy, but �normal� is not the first word that comes to mind when describing them. Hypomanics live on the edge, betweeen normal and abnormal."

There is nothing wrong with saying that Entrepreneurs are not "normal", especially with what passes as being "normal" in today's society.

However, because you are describing their talents as being a medical condition close to "abnormal" - you really have made a perverted evaluation of successful individuals who ought to be admired and not ridiculed. You have just added fuel to the fire of the tall poppy syndrome and with an introduction like that this book does not deserve to be read.

You also need a better editor with reference to the spelling mistake above.

(Edited by Marcus Bachler on 3/06, 6:38am)

Post 12

Sunday, March 6, 2005 - 5:10am