RoR: Forum

Peter,

Unfortunately the new "guidelines" are nothing more than a very bad joke.

The current law (written in 1967) states that householders can use "reasonable force" without giving a very clear indication of what that means. The key section of the new guidelines states "So long as you do only what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence."

Coverage in the press suggests I'm not alone in thinking that the above is bullsh*t.

The Conservative Party, in an increasingly rare instance of being right, want to explicitly alter the law to allow the use of anything other than "grossly disproportionate force". Ideally of course the law should be based on the principle that a burglar leaves his rights outside on breaking in.

MH

Post 1

Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 2:08pm

After Tony Blair said, "Don't be in any doubt - you are entitled to defend yourself." He said something like, "the police have said it, the Courts have said it, and now I am saying it."

However, it appears to me that the law as it stands now does not protect the homeowner. Just look at the case of "Tony Martin" and another similar case raised by a Tory MP that lead to this current debate; the law does indeed need changing or at least clearing up as the Tories claim.

I am not surprised that the public are behind this initiative. They are not blind!

Post 2

Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 7:38pm

I read a very good summary of this issue in a post on another forum:

I took another look at your first post (and thread title) today and realized where you were going.

I ran into this question YEARS ago, some twit talking about "all killing is evil".

My reply: "Which Jews were more moral:

1) the ones that died in the Nazi concentration camps of starvation, disease and torture OR:

2) the ones that died in the Warsaw Ghettos, piles of dead stormtroopers at their feet after having permanently proved "Aryan superiority" a bad joke by fighting 5,000 members of the most well equipped army ever to a standstill with a few dozen fighters and captured weapons?".

Note: the Ghetto held out significantly longer than the WHOLE NATION OF POLAND. Yo, James Mattis: your kinfolk did GOOD there.

If you're walking down the street and you see some thugs beating on somebody, you're looking at a concentration camp. It may be small, there might be only one inmate...but the twisted shade of Adolph is looking on with a leer.

REMEMBER THAT if you pack weaponry and aquire tactical skill.

Jim March

Post 3

Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 10:39pm

MH,

"So long as you do only what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence."

I have to agree that this statement reeks of bullshit. What else are you going to do in the heat of the moment?

If you wake up and see a man standing over your bed with a gun, there's no time for debating the issue. What other reason could there possibly be for him entering your home other than to do harm in some way?

I say wax the son of a bitch, and ask questions later.

Post 4

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 12:23am

AaaaaMEN.

If he's in my house uninvited, I should be allowed to paint my walls with his guts.

If I find him shagging my wife in our bed, however, I have to shut up and take it like a good boy. Maybe then she'll have mercy on me in divorce court.

But who am I kidding... Wives showing mercy? They always get half no matter what.

(Edited by Danny Silvera on 2/03, 8:26am)

Post 5

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 5:51pm

I reccomend no one messes with Iannolo 'family'.....

Seriously though, i completely agree - shoot first ask questions later. My life is too important to me to lose.

(Edited by Jordan King on 2/03, 8:28pm)

Post 6

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 6:57pm

This makes me realize why I secretly wish I belonged to the Iannolo family...

Post 7

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 7:03pm

Danny, seriously if another man came into YOUR house to do your wife, thats a whole different ballgame then if she went to his.

Maybe its cause I'm from the South but from my perspective he's a DEAD MAN! And she will be tossed out on the street and if I'm felling generours (I prob won't) I'll let her reach for a towel. Afterwards I'll call the cops myself and where I'm from I doubt anything will come of it.

Post 8

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 7:10pm

And oh yeah about the guns, I don't think the law was ever the problem, it was its interperation. This wasn't a problem in the 70's and 80's, really just recentally.

If a criminal came to my home, for me shooting him there would be a last resort, I doubt insurence would pay for the blood stains. Drag his ass outside at gunpoint and then shoot him there (say he was trying to break in if you must). My grandfather popped one in the head coming through a window and he told me his biggest problem was cleaning up the mess, my grandmother wouldn't go near it and in the 50's, cleanup was your problem.

Post 9

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 8:35pm