About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Forward one pageLast Page


Post 80

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I think we should put this ridiculous, homophobic, and  insulting term "Saddamite" to bed once and for all. I don't know of one libertarian against the war who claimed that Saddam was some kind of a nice person, or was running a utopian regime, or "supported" his dictatorship.


Post 81

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:54pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I think we should put this ridiculous, homophobic, and  insulting term "Saddamite" to bed once and for all.
While I don't generally like the term, it source kind of makes a homophobic meaning unlikely.


I don't know of one libertarian against the war who claimed that Saddam was some kind of a nice person,
Ok

or was running a utopian regime,
Ok

or "supported" his dictatorship.
Ah, their are many kinds of support.


Sanction: 2, No Sanction: 0
Post 82

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 6:03pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Not a single one of you seems to care one bit about Operation Keelhaul, and the US participation in rounding up two million refugees, loading them onto boxcars, and sending them to certain death in the clutches of Stalin. No one seems interested in the arguments that the US helped Stalin expand his empire beyond which he would have been able to without US intervention.


So, by your "logic" the U.S. can never do anything good and must lie down and take it because of past sins? Hmmm. While your at it, is there anyone in your familiy who ever commited a crime? Told a lie? Did something illegal or immoral? Please come clean so we can punish you for it!

While we can wish that these things were not done or condoned by the U.S or Great Britian, it will not change the past. Shall we multiply our errors by hobbling ourselves with this original sin type guilt and submit to self-immolation or evasion of reality. The United States HAS made many mistakes. but it is a far cry better than any other country. Shall we dwell only upon our mistakes and not upon our goodness? Shall we close our eyes to the world and sit in our closet with our hands over our ears chanting that it isn't real? We had no obligation to go into Iraq, but given what we beleived to be the situation, to do anything else would have been evasive and reckless. The manner of our war may be poor, but the justification for it and the need for it are there. Wake Up!

(Edited by Ethan Dawe on 1/27, 6:29pm)


Post 83

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 8:48pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I do so want to thank those who have taken the trouble to give me such invaluable lectures on how to comport myself on SOLOHQ. Ordinarily I might have described such lectures as prissy. But now I can see that I really will have to try harder. Beginning right now. I read that today saw the greatest number of US casualties in Iraq since the liberation. I shall refrain from being impolite to those who say it's all America's fault, just as I shall refrain from being impolite to those who gleefully trumpet such news as grist for their anarcho-nihilist mill. Failure to be polite, after all, is a sin compared to which all other sins, such as succouring Saddam, or being rude about those other nice folk who killed all those nasty Americans today, become the acme of virtue.

I trust we all know to hold the little finger out while we take tea?

Linz

Post 84

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 9:12pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Well Lindsay,

I'm sorry if you feel offended by my comments, but they are my opinion on the matter. I'm not you of course and as I always say, you are free to do as you please, but you know that already. I wouldn't bother to post anything if I didn't care about SOLO. You must do what you know to be right, but I would be remiss if I didn't post my honest opinion as well. I have always expected and beleived in both the value of honest praise and the value of honest criticism. Those who gave both have always been my truest friends. They acknowlege when I excell as I acknowlege such to myself, and they acknowlege when I don't meet their expectations, as I do to myself as well. There is value in both, and as a trader you are free to take it or leave it as you see fit. It's impossible to do something a big and valuable as SOLO without having a ton of shit hurled at you, but you should be aware of who is hurling shit and who is just providing feedback.

Sincerly,
Ethan 


Post 85

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 10:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ha, Ethan! You know you're at liberty to state your opinion, just as you know I am at liberty to defend myself. Especially here, of all places. As I've said before, when the first dirty bomb is exploded on American turf, I'd defy any of my critics in their last mini-moment to remonstrate with me for having called the appeasing bastards whose cowardly treachery allowed it to happen, "Saddamites."
(Edited by Lindsay Perigo on 1/27, 10:23pm)


Post 86

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 10:22pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Oh, & Ethan—yes, I know I must expect, as SOLO's founder, to have "a ton of shit" hurled at me. If I didn't know it before, I certainly know it now. But I did know it before, just from all my years in public life. Anyone who sticks his head above the parapet of conformity & mediocrity is going to be shot at. In this culture, that's a given. No point in crying in a corner over it, but sometimes it's exceedingly disappointing to see where the shit comes from.

Funny part in this instance is, this is not about me, or Joe Rowlands or any other SOLO staffer. It's about trying to give a magnificent philosophy—Ayn Rand's—an outlet commensurate with its sunny significance. There's no question that SOLO is achieving this. The flip-side of that sunniness is a justly dark contempt for entities that make excuses for dictators or their apologists. Not to fixate on them or allow them to quash one's own inner radiance, but to pass judgement as deserved when they speak their foul thoughts.

Me? Guilty as charged. Proudly.

Linz

Post 87

Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:04pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
If a dirty bombs hits America, I can hardly see how it could be blamed on the antiwar Americans. You got your war. You've gotten your war for the last sixty years.

It's almost like the way the 1929 stock market crash was blamed on free enterprise -- even though the libertarians of the time had been arguing shortly before that the Federal Reserve and other government intervention would increase the probability of such a disaster. For years, antiwar libertarians have warned that U.S. interventionism would foster anti-American terrorism. It happened. For the last three years, we have been warning that the war on terror will only make another attack more likely. And if it happens? You're going to blame us? This is just ridiculous. It is a pinnacle of insanity to say that opponents of the war in Iraq are responsible for attacks by Muslim terrorists. You get your war, and when it fails to achieve its goals, you blame those who were telling you it would fail all along? It's just like the way leftists defend interventions in the economy; no matter what their outcomes they blame any failures on the opponents of the intervention and they take credit for any perceived successes, even in the face of evidence that there were other costs they're ignoring.

But from the pro-war point of view, it seems like anything is an excuse for war. If we're not attacked, it must be because we're at war. If we are attacked, the answer must be we need more war. Think about that logic for a moment. If a socialist made similar points about economic intervention -- that during prosperity, we need more government regulation, and if a crash hits, we need more government regulation -- you'd probably realize the fallacy and the illogic. That so many pro-war libertarians can't seem to apply their libertarian opposition to central planning to war makes me think that many of you simply don't understand the economic, public-choice, and ethical reasons that socialism fails and markets work. Instead, it seems you base your support for or against a war on some sort of doctrine that's ever difficult to determine or define, largely originating with Ayn Rand and yet ignoring many of the important points she herself made about the history of U.S. foreign policy.

Perhaps some of you will always support war, any war, as long as it's conducted by the U.S. government. However, no one here answered me as to whether or not the Kosovo war received their support, why or why not, and whether, assuming the answer is no, this makes you "anti-American" or "pro-Milosevic." I would guess that for many of you the answers to those questions would be all too revealing. You're welcome to try to prove me wrong, but you should try to do so with reason, rather than childish insults.



Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 88

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:14amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
The day Bush can "weep and mourn" when anti-occupation fighters "lose their life" in Iraq will be the day he transcends his oily fundamentalism. But no such day is on the presidential calendar.
Current U.S. foreign policy -- a virulent blend of nationalism, corporate zeal and religiosity
As if Mr. Knapp wanted to prove Lindsay's point, this article was on the ISIL mailing list today, suggesting that the "anti-occupation" fighters, who want nothing less to install a murderous, oppressive theocratic hell hole on the people of Iraq, deserve some kind of adulation for their efforts.  While they blow themselves up along with 100's of Iraqi's, who are guilty because they want to partake in a representative governments, ISIL is promulgating articles which suggests the lives of these murderous terrorists should be mourned for.  They are choosing the only destruction they have the right to choose, their own.   Disgusting. Michael
9. Of death be not proud
----------
Common Dreams
by Norman Solomon
"'The story today is going to be very discouraging to the American people,' President Bush said at a news conference Wednesday, hours after 37 American troops died in Iraq. 'I understand that. We value life. And we weep and mourn when soldiers lose their life.' How long will the U.S. news media continue to indulge that sort of pious talk from the White House without challenge? The evidence is overwhelming that the president and his policy team are quite willing to devalue
-- in fact, destroy -- life when it gets in their way. And if they 'weep and mourn when soldiers lose their life,' the grief is rigorously selective. The day Bush can 'weep and mourn' when anti-occupation fighters 'lose their life' in Iraq will be the day he transcends his oily fundamentalism. But no such day is on the presidential calendar." (01/27/05)
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0127-22.htm
 


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 89

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:38amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I recommend this article posted on CapMag by Thomas Sowell, quite a brilliant thinker and writer in my opinion:

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4112

My favorite quote was this:

One of the biggest American victories during the Second World War was called "the great Marianas turkey shoot" because American fighter pilots shot down more than 340 Japanese planes over the Marianas islands while losing just 30 American planes. But what if our current reporting practices had been used back then?

The story, as printed and broadcast, could have been: "Today eighteen American pilots were killed and five more severely wounded, as the Japanese blasted more than two dozen American planes out of the sky." A steady diet of that kind of one-sided reporting and our whole war effort against Japan might have collapsed.
 
This is a perfect example of what ISIL and most of the media is doing today about Iraq.


Post 90

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 1:13pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I repeat: ISIL = Evil.

Linz

Post 91

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 2:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Perigo = ridiculous

Post 92

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 3:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I hate to say this sort of thing, but Mr. Perigo is really coming unhinged at the seams.

Post 93

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
It should be noted the the United States is already forcing people to remain in the military to maintain troop strength in Iraq and is having a hard time getting new recruits. An actual draft may be just around the corner. Also, the costs of this war are being paid for by taxation, not voluntary donations. And the cost is mind boggling. Perhaps we will have a defense of slavery and theft here.

Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 94

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 3:42pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Perigo = ridiculous
While my nation is engaged in a titanic struggle with one the most evil and inhumane foes in recorded history, this 'impolite and ridiculous' New Zealander has shown more love and concern for my nations young warriors than many (if not most) of its own citizens.

Lindsay 'the ridiculous' Perigo, New Zealander by birth: and as far as I am concerned, an  American, in the best sense of what that word implies.  

Sincerely, George

PS: Let me join the chorus of all those that have become unhinged at the seams, by saying this to all of the cowards, pacifist, appeasers, and outright treasonous bastards: go fuck yourselves.  



Post 95

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 5:58pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

 It should be noted the the United States is already forcing people to remain in the military to maintain troop strength in Iraq and is having a hard time getting new recruits. An actual draft may be just around the corner. Also, the costs of this war are being paid for by taxation, not voluntary donations. And the cost is mind boggling. Perhaps we will have a defense of slavery and theft here.

 

While you like to make much of this, its in the contract, and has been for some time. When I was in the military it could have happened to me. That's why its a volunteer force. You sign the contract and then fulfill it. You don't take the oath of service lightly. In any case, George is right.



Post 96

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 7:52pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thank you George, for reminding me there are still some Americans capable of decency—& loyalty to their countrymen out risking their lives against an enemy of western civilisation as evil as any there has ever been. No doubt some timorous tut-tutter will come on & click his tongue about your having used a four-letter word. Truth to tell, even the strongest profanity is not strong enough to convey the contempt due to any maggot who succours the car-bombers & beheaders as per the article on the ISIL page cited by Michael above. Part of me is grateful that Mr. Knapp chose to confirm my depiction of his enterprise in this way; the bulk of me is revolted beyond words.

I say again, George—at times like this it's great to know there are people like you in the world.

Linz

Post 97

Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:04pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Well, I'm finished here. I have been told by several friends that having anything to do with this board is pure masochism, and I must agree.

Mr. Perigo, I pity you. Please think about getting some professional help as soon as possible. If you allow these deranged ravings to continue you may eventually really hurt yourself or others.


Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 12, No Sanction: 0
Post 98

Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 1:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mr Fulwiler -

Good Riddance.
 
I'm a New Zealander too, and it's safe to say that Lyndsay Perigo has been this countries greatest advocate of freedom ever.
 
I suggest it's not him that needs to seek help.
 
 
 


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 99

Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 7:36amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mark D. Fulwiler,
Well, I'm finished here.

Well, bugger off then.

(I've always wanted to say that to somebody. Thanks for providing the opportunity.)


Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.