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Post 0

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 4:04amSanction this postReply
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Since I posted this there's just been a series of car-bombings in the Iraqi capital by ISIL's friends. The casualties from these bombings will lead the Saddamite ISIL's Freedom News Daily tomorrow, in their daily gloat-fest. Unspeakable.

Linz

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Post 1

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:32amSanction this postReply
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Having my origins in libertarianism before getting interested in Rand, I have been reading the FND and the RRND for some time, and I have to agree completely with you.  Although I must say that the FND news emails frequently link to Tibor's articles here at SoloHQ.  But it has been going steadily down hill for some time, along with most of libertarianism, imo.  You used to see articles sympathetic to the spreading of western values, the recognition of western values of rights and liberty as superior, and reported on the vile nature of many of the worlds dictators and tyrants.  Now the predominant libertarian mentality is "I've got mine, screw you."  I would like to see some of R.J. Rummel's writings get up there.

Michael Dickey

If you are not familiar with it, check out.

PowerKills - http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html
Freedom, Democide, War home page.


Post 2

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 7:21amSanction this postReply
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So you decided to take a walk in a gang-ridden region of a city and got mugged. No, doubt, it is the fault of the muggers. Yet, you certainly cannot claim to have practiced the virtue of prudence, nor indeed of courage--you were reckless. Especially if you should have known better what is likely to await you.

Post 3

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 7:22amSanction this postReply
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It's really dirty pool to call them ISIL's friends. Have you researched this? Are they? Does reporting on their vicious killings make them one's friends? Give me a break, Linz.
(Edited by Machan on 1/19, 7:23am)

(Edited by Machan on 1/19, 7:24am)


Post 4

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 8:01amSanction this postReply
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Linz, this is an incredible rush to judgment. I have known many of the ISIL people for years and they are my friends, I have spoken at many of their conferences, and I have considered them the best of the libertarian groups, engaging in a number of activities of great value.. I have not been following them lately, so I shall investigate myself; but I cannot take your word for it that they "rejoice" in Iraqi casualties.

You wrote: "This organisation. . . , has an historic affinity for the likes of the North American Man-Boy Love Association."

This is total nonsense, Linz. It has no such affinity, and you should not smear the organization with such an accusation.

Barbara

Post 5

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 9:45amSanction this postReply
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Linz,

Ideas have consequences. The Rothbardian idea of market competition in force leads to the idea that criminal gangs, from the New Jersey Mob to the Baathists, are just honest businessmen done wrong by the evil monopolists of the US government. I recall talking with you about this at the last TOC meeting, so please don't pretend that you are shocked, shocked, to discover that ISIL is reading the Anti-Trust Act to Uncle Sam.
(Edited by Adam Reed on 1/19, 10:46am)


Post 6

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 1:11pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara - I remonstrated with the editor about this whole matter a couple of weeks ago, when I became fed up with the obvious sub-text of each day's lead story: "This is all America's fault." He said that, "While we are unanimous in our opposition to the war, this policy [leading each digest with Iraq casualties] isn't so much because of that opposition as because we consider it the top story while it continues ..." Initially I bought that, but now I don't. I doubt that any news organisation on earth treats Iraq as the top story in all its bulletins. No, this is a clear exercise in America-bashing, with each day's casualties gleefully treated as grist for the mill.

He also said that ISIL exerts no editorial control over this process. That too is disingenuous. The thing goes out under ISIL's banner. The buck stops with them.

Excuse me if I cannot help but vomit at the spectacle of (pseudo-)libertarians signing on as fellow-travellers with the scum of the earth (the actual perpetrators of the Iraqi carnage) in such parlous times. I don't know what ISIL *used* to be like, but it's clear enough where it's been heading, & it ain't pretty.

Re the NAMBLA affinity, I possibly have over-generalised on the basis of certain specifics. Given that I have no wish to relitigate those specifics, it's only fair that I retract *that* depiction. So I do.

Linz
(Edited by Lindsay Perigo on 1/19, 1:14pm)


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Post 7

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 5:44pmSanction this postReply
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With all respect to you as the genesis for this wonderful, site, Mr. Pergio, I have to say that many of us Objectivists were not in favor of the Iraq war, seeing it akin to many other wars of interference on America's part and stemming, not from a selfish, rational desire to make this nation safer, but instead as one of altruism and motivated by other factors. If, in fact, ISIL is reveling in the deaths of American soldiers, then yes, they deserve to be derided. However, their mere opposition to the war does not warrant the Peikoffian rhetoric with which you label them. There are intelligent libertarians and Objectivists with serious misgivings about the war.

Post 8

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:37pmSanction this postReply
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Steven - I guess you're new here, so you've missed the many & long debates we've had over the war. You could go here for a sample of the most recent one:

http://solohq.com/Forum/Books/0116_3.shtml#73

I have nothing to add to what I said there, & most participants have agreed to give it a rest. I certainly won't be engaging in further debate on it in the near future.

Linz


Post 9

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:25pmSanction this postReply
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Hello. My name is Thomas Knapp and I am the publisher and editor-in-chief of Freedom News Daily and Rational Review News Digest.

The editorial policy of headlining each day's news digest with the latest Iraq war news is my policy, and a policy agreed to by the other members of the publications' joint editorial board. At the time that the policy was framed, no one on that board was in any way affiliated with ISIL (one member is now doing webmaster work for ISIL, which is the function he also performs for Rational Review/RRND).

Briefly, in terms of content, Freedom News Daily is now a subset of Rational Review News Digest. When ISIL ran into difficulties continuing to produce FND "in-house," we at RRND came to an agreement with ISIL. Essentially, ISIL pays us nothing for producing the daily newsletter (we're allowed to raise funds from the readership), and exercises absolutely no editorial control whatsoever over its content.

In other words, if Mr. Perigo has a bone to pick, that bone is legitimately with me.

As he mentions, we discussed this at length.

Yes, I am opposed to the war in Iraq, as are the other members of the editorial board. Far from being a "Saddamist," I humped a rifle against Saddam in the 1991 war as an infantry NCO in the United States Marine Corps. If I didn't have a thick skin, I might take umbrage at Mr. Perigo's insinuations.

As a matter of fact, one of my biggest grievances with the war in Iraq is that the US had barely "liberated" the country before reconstituting Saddam's secret police, the Mukhabarat, and installing as "interim prime minister" Iyad Allawi, Saddam's former chief assassin in Europe.

All that aside, however, the fact is that RRND and FND do carry "pro-war" commentaries -- not because of some pretense to "neutrality" or to what American newspapers falsely call "objectivity," but because we attempt to serve the freedom movement with news and commentary that will be _of interest to_ people involved in that movement (as opposed to being _in agreement with_ any particular person involved in that movement).

That means that we offer a pretty broad cross-section of "libertarian" commentary, including the "Objectivist" subset thereof. It also means we throw in some "conservative" and "liberal" stuff. The plumb line swings with less range over FND's content than over RRND's.

On the news end, we consider the Iraq war the top story until it ends, period. Part of that is that the staff is all American and the readership largely so, and the war is the preeminent issue in American politics at this time. Presumably those who favor the war are just as interested in war news as those who oppose it.

Regards,
Tom Knapp

Post 10

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:06amSanction this postReply
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Tom - as the post above yours says, we have debated the war ad nauseam on this site & we're all weary of it. I'm not going to argue it with you. We have folk here who fought Saddam the first time, like you, but who also support his toppling this time, unlike you.

I wrote the "ISIL = Evil" entry from the perspective of someone who is appalled at the sub-text that shrieks at me every night when your digest arrives—a hideous, treacherous moral inversion. The bone to pick is with you? Well, I picked it with you, as you acknowledge. But it's the ISIL banner that flies atop these daily digests. If I saw the SOLO banner being used atop something I despised then I would want to nullify immediately the agreement under which it was being so used. If the agreement didn't provide for nullification, I would at least dissociate SOLO from whatever it was that horrified me. ISIL, being anti-liberation, no doubt have no qualms about their banner topping this particular content. So be it. It's their right, just as it's yours to arrange, & less than subtly editorialise about, the content as you see fit. It's also my right to tell you—& folk here at SOLO—what I think of that. In fact, I couldn't forgive myself if I didn't.

As you will see if you follow the link I supplied newbie Steven, there are many here who agree with you about the war. Folk are allowed to have disagreements here. No one is booted off for simple dissent, much less car-bombed for it. My concern is always to leave folk in no doubt where I stand.

Linz

Post 11

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:40amSanction this postReply
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Lindsay,

Thanks for your reply.

I am not posting here to argue the war issue with you (after more than two years, I'm pretty sick of arguing it myself).

The reason I posted here was to dispel any illusion that ISIL is the producer of, or has prior approval on, the content of Freedom News Daily. Obviously they don't find it noxious or they would terminate the arrangement under which we at RRND provide the publication's content (our agreement has provisions for that).

The editorial policy is mine -- and it is the editorial policy I would choose whether I supported or opposed the war. It is open to change should the war cease (in my opinion and that of my fellow editors) to be the preeminent issue in American (and therefore, to a degree, world) politics, or should the war end.

Until that time, each and every edition will open with the war news, if there is any significant war news to report (and we consider each casualty significant; most of us have friends and/or relatives, and I have former comrades, serving in Iraq). The two exceptions to this policy that I can recall in the last few months were the US election results and the tsunami story, both of which were the top headline in editions of RRND and/or FND (we didn't start publishing FND until November 15th).

Regards,
Tom Knapp

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Post 12

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 7:42amSanction this postReply
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Thomas Knapp said:
because we attempt to serve the freedom movement with news and commentary that will be _of interest to_ people involved in that movement
Of course, perhaps you might take under consideration under the "pro-war" or "pro-freedom" commentary some of the writings of RJ Rummel, such as the article below.  R.J Rummel, Professor Emeritus of Political Science and Nobel Peace Prize finalist, has published twenty-nine books, and received numerous awards for his research.  He has probably spent more time than any other man alive studying the number of people governments have murdered and how and why they did so.  The truth is most libertarians, and most people for that matter, are barely aware of any of this information, and as such its hard to consider their opinions informed. 

Michael Dickey 

 
Another Expert Wrong about Democracy

from - http://freedomspeace.blogspot.com/

The Independent Institute, a libertarian think tank, has just published a report, “U.S. Foreign Policy: Question All Assumptions,” by its foreign policy expert Ian Eland (link here). It well shows the inadequacies of libertarian thinking on foreign policy. Here, I want to focus on a prime target of the report, which is President Bush’s Forward Strategy of Freedom that is based on the democratic peace research findings.

One of Eland’s concerns is the “assumptions held by the U.S. policy elite and general public. . . . The first is that democracies are more peaceful than more authoritarian governments. Scholars have shown that no empirical support exists for this proposition. In fact, newly minted democracies go to war at greater frequency than more autocratic states.”

I’m a scholar and I show the opposite. Eland is also misleading. If you count all war equally, such as involvement in the Boxer Rebellion, or the invasion of Panama, or Grenada, with World Wars I and II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and so on, then this is correct. But, it is a ridiculous way of assessing the involvement of democracies in war. Rather, if you take account of the importance and totality of a war by counting killed, then democracies fight far less violent wars than do nondemocracies. I have written an article on this, "Democracies ARE less warlike than other regimes," European Journal of International Relations Vol. 1 (December 1995):457-479 (link here).

Eland goes on, “The second is that democracies don’t go to war with each other — the democratic peace theory. Although the validity of this theory is disputed among scholars, opponents of the theory convincingly argue that even if wars among democracies are rare throughout history, democracies are also rare.”

He ignores that about 120 democracies now exist, not one of which is threatening the other such that they arm or form alliances against each other. The danger of war comes from the nondemocracies. Moreover, if you do a statistics test of the number of democracies in history, you will find that lack of war between democracies is statistically significant.

Eland continues, “But examples of wars between democracies do exist—for example, the Boer war at the turn of the twentieth century, World War I, and the American Civil War.”

Eland has not done the research on this that he should have, and seems to be lifting this from a BBC news editorial (Link here — see my blog on this here). The BBC editorialist and Eland are wrong. The Boers were not democracies. And Germany in World War I was not a democracy in foreign and military affairs. As I wrote in response to the BBC, these and other cases have been studied in detail by students of the democratic peace and found to be no exceptions. See for example, the historian Spencer R. Weart’s Never At War (his summary chapter is on my website), and James Lee Ray’s comprehensive review article on the democratic peace (”Does Democracy cause peace” (1998) in the Annual Review of Political Science)

Eland then points out that, “[A]ccording to Time, President Bush is enamored with the Natan Sharansky’s book The Case for Democracy, which argues that security of the world depends on using any means necessary to support democracy. Even if democracies ultimately went to war less than more authoritarian nations and if they never went to war with each other—dubious propositions—the costs of all of the wars needed to convert autocratic countries to democracies would be too high. In addition to expending much blood and treasure, all U.S. wars have eroded civil liberties at home. Even if the USG could militarily convert all of the nations of the world to real democracies (most democracies in the developing world are fake)—and the record here is not good—the United States could very well endanger its own democracy.

There is so much here that is wrong that I feel like I’m grading a sophomore’s essay on foreign policy. One, it is not “dubious.” The evidence is solid that democracies do not go to war with each other. Two, Eland’s assumption is that only through war will nondemocracies be converted to democracies. Doesn’t Eland even recognize the nonviolence democratization of Eastern Europe (with the exception of Yugoslavia), Costa Rica, Taiwan, South Korea, and the Philippines, just to mention a few? Three, he says that most democracies in the developed world are fake. Tell that to Freedom House (link here) in regard to its annual rating of freedom. In 2003, it came up with 121 democracies, of which 89 were free in terms of civil liberties and political rights — in my terms, they were liberal democracies. Of these 89, less than half are developed. And I think freedom house would be upset if I told them that their freedom ratings on these countries were fake, as Eland says.

Enough.

Eland, you have to do the research on this before writing about the democratic peace. And may I humbly suggest you start with my website website and Q&A.

   ----------------

Or consider the Freeman Interview

Excerpt

"
The Freeman: What were the biggest surprises to emerge from your research?
Rummel: First of all, the unprecedented magnitude of mass murder. Nobody had tried to estimate it before. We have many books about demographics, like total population, the number of people who own telephones and cars. There's data on the number of people who die from heart attacks, strokes, cancer, and accidents. But until recently, there hasn't been any reliable information on the number of people killed by governments. Even though many of us were aware that governments were major killers, the numbers still come as a shock. During the twentieth century, 14 regimes murdered over a million people [each], and it would be hard to find a scholar who could name half these regimes. I was shocked to find that governments kill people to fill a quota. For instance, in the Soviet Union under Stalin and China under Mao, the government would set execution quotas. They would decree that perhaps 5 percent of the people are counterrevolutionaries, so kill 5 percent of the people. Writers, entrepreneurs, you name it--kill 5 percent. In retrospect, I can see that murder by quota was the natural thing for these regimes to do, because they had central planners direct production of iron, steel, wheat, pigs, and almost everything else by quota. I was shocked to discover how officials at the highest levels of government planned mass murder. The killing they would delegate to humble cadres. So much for the notion of government benevolence. Powerful governments can be like gangs, stealing, raping, torturing, and killing on a whim. Another shocking thing, for me as a political scientist, was to see how political scientists almost everywhere have promoted the expansion of government power. They have functioned as the clergy of oppression.
"
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/FREEMAN.INTERVIEW.HTM

   -------------

R.J. Rummel is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science. He has published twenty-four nonfiction books (one that received an award for being among the most referenced), four novels, and about 100 peer-reviewed professional articles; has received the Susan Strange Award of the International Studies Association for having intellectually most challenged the field in 1999; and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award 2003 from the Conflict Processes Section, American Political Science Association. He was a 1996 Nobel Peace Prize finalist


Post 13

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
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Lindsay stinks, Tom is the man. Lindsay is a meaningless player with no influence on the libertarian movement. Thomas provides a hugely valuable service, and even had the class to link to this brainless, raving, baseless accusation from the idiot Lindsay. You can tell a lot about what kind of people these two are from this exchange. Lindsay is a fool not interested in the truth.

Yeah, ISIL=Evil. Right. What an important message from a true lover of freedom (gag). Lindsay clearly is really committed to liberty. If only we'll all boycott the ISIL and its dastardly dastardness, freedom's cause is sure to be better off. Because anyone opposed to the aggresive invasion of Iraq is evil and anti-freedom, and therefore anti-reason, and therefore anti-reality, and therefore anti-life. Just as sure as A is A. True libertarians support our raping, torturing, murdering troops. Go team go! Kill! Kill! Kill!

Right?

Post 14

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:45amSanction this postReply
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John,

Given your venom for Lindsay, may I ask exactly why you are here?

Jennifer


Post 15

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 2:31pmSanction this postReply
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Quoth Michael Dickey:

-----
Of course, perhaps you might take under consideration under the "pro-war" or "pro-freedom" commentary some of the writings of RJ Rummel
-----

Thanks for mentioning that. I have a great deal of respect for Rummel's writings on "democide," and would be ecstatic to feature his articles in Freedom News Daily and Rational Review News Digest.

Here's the deal, though: Right now, I personally "cover" somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 web sites a day (for commentary -- as many or more for news as well), and the other three editors cover similar numbers of sites. I'd like to keep up with more, but I'm only one guy [four people]. If you know of an "update" or "alert" list for Dr. Rummel's work that I can sign up for, I'll be glad to do so.

Regards,
Tom Knapp

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Post 16

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 2:46pmSanction this postReply
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Quoth John Wiltbank:

-----
Lindsay stinks, Tom is the man.
-----

Not having met Lindsay, I can't comment on the quality of his odor. However, I have a good deal more respect for him than this particular exchange might indicate. Hell, he's published one or two of my articles in Free Radical, so he can't be all bad ;-)

Look, guys: The war issue is splitting pre-existing movements and relationships down the middle. That's understandable, but it sucks. A lot of fine people are reaching opposing conclusions, seemingly from the same premises.

Where assumptions are necessary, can we assume error rather than evil on the part of those with whom we've worked in the past but with whom we now disagree? Even error requires a reckoning, but it's a less devastating reckoning and it's a reckoning that, to an extent, can wait until the dust settles a bit. And yeah, I'm the first one to forget that and go off on someone. But I'm trying.

Regards,
Tom Knapp

Post 17

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
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In response to R.J. Rummel's critique of Ivan Eland of The Independent Institute, where I work, I thought I'd post this url to a blog entry of mine.

http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/007161.html

Suffice it to say, I'm antiwar, seeing as how war is the most massive initiation of force ever imposed upon people by governments. The democide that has occurred, and that Rummel well documents, has largely been just another product of war. Who doubts that the prospects for freedom from tyranny, in Europe, would not have been better had the US stayed out of WWI, for example? That war to make the world safe for democracy, to end all wars, was hardly a success. I wonder how many pro-war libertarians would have supported it.

And, of course, I don't relish the deaths of Americans in Iraq. It's important news, though, and those who understand the importance of those American lives would, it seems to me, want to see it reported. Reporting the atrocities resulting from the war – which we antiwar libertarians warned would result from the war – is not supporting those atrocities. Ignoring them is not patriotism, either.

The only objective way to stop such tragedy is to refrain from war. Those who supported the war knew that they effectively supported hundreds or thousands of Americans dying -- they simply believed the cause was worth it. If the cause was "self-defense," it should be honest that that cause was a scam. If the cause was "liberation," any dispassionate look at what's happening in Iraq proves that cause to be a failure. This is why so many people hate hearing about what's happening in Iraq: such news simply makes the sad truth harder to escape.

Against liberation in Iraq? Please. As Tom pointed out, the US reconstituted Saddam's police state. And which federal government was it that supported Saddam back in the 1980s, during his worst crimes, and even protected him from international scrutiny? Oh yes, I remember. The prowar libertarians in the 1980s probably thought that was a good idea, while the antiwar libertarians opposed such interventions and US support of Saddam's dictatorship. Did the prowar libertarians at the time accuse the antiwar libertarians of being pro-Ayatollah?


Post 18

Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:45pmSanction this postReply
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I read with astonishment Lindsay Perigo's diatribe about anti-war libertarians. What astonishes me is Mr. Perigo's seeming indifference to principle in delimiting what government may--and may not--do in waging war. This seeming indifference astonishes me especially in light of the original, radical, and monumental work performed by Rand and a few of her followers in proving that moral values are objective, and that individual rights are man's by nature.

Of course, war-state objectivists do like to talk about principles of just war, of the "right" of the state to maim and kill endless numbers of innocent foreign people in such a war, of the "right" of a "good" state to invade a bad state, and of the essential "rightness" of U.S. foreign policy over the past 130 years.

However, such "principles" are without merit. Why? Because, in contrast to "Randian" life-affirming individual rights, these "rights" supposedly held by the war-state are unproven, and contradict the individual natural rights from which they are supposedly derived. This proposition can be shown to be true, even if Rand herself were alive to dispute it.
 
The only legitimate function of government is to protect its citizens within its borders from assault by domestic and foreign criminals. Why? Because individuals have rights that must not be violated by any person, or by any state--a government unleased from its legitimate, narrowly prescribed defensive function. As soon as a state wields coercion in domestic affairs, it violates the rights of its own subjects.  When a War-state wields force non-defensively in foreign adventures, it violates the rights of its own subjects, AND of hapless foreign people who committed the "crime" of being born under a regime that came into the War-state's gun sights. An authoritarian foreign state itself has no rights. However, its subjects emphatically do have rights.

For this reason, a government should not threaten or invade another state, even if that foreign state is a war-prone and oppressive dictatorship, provided that dictatorship poses no realistic threat to the domestic security of the citizen-subjects of the
first government. Defensive pre-emptive strikes are legitimate, provided only that hard, credible, and conclusive evidence exists that some other state is poised to strike against the citizens of the defender.

Of course, citizens ought to be free to donate money and help voluntarily to the cause of oppressed subjects of a dictatorship. If someone wants to risk his life fighting to overthrow Hitler, or Hussein, or Noriega, that's his business. Others may prefer to join battle in the arena of ideas.

World War II provides an excellent example of the incompatibility of the "principles" embraced by War-state objectivists and conservatives, and the reality of individual rights.
Like all American wars of the 20th century, WWII was non-defensive, the "surprise attack" at Pearl Harbor notwithstanding. It is beyond dispute that FDR bullied and provoked Japan into attacking Pearl, by imposing an oil embargo, by interfering with Japan's freedom to negotiate bi-lateral trade arrangements with various South American countries, by freezing the assets of Japanese citizens held by American banks, by continually sabre-rattling and threatening Japan's hegemony in Asia with our own home-grown brand of hegemony, and a lot more. It is beyond dispute that FDR knew well in advance of the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor, as proven by Robert Stinnett in his book DAY OF DECEIT, and that FDR was actively complicit in setting the stage for the attack. And why? Because the sensible American public was opposed to going to war in Europe by lopsided margins of roughly 3 to 1.

Roosevelt made promises on about three occasions to the British and French that the United States could be counted on to join any fight against Hitler. It is not far-fetched to presume that the British especially were thus encouraged to engage the German military by issuing a blank check on behalf of Poland's territorial autonomy--a check that Churchhill knew could be cleared only with the backing of the United States. Incidentally, there is good evidence that Hitler originally had no designs on Great Britain--the world's leading naval power--having set his sights on expanding to the east into Russia, as convincingly described by William Henry Chamberlain in AMERICA'S SECOND CRUSADE. By making illegal promises to Britain and France, FDR created the moral hazard of unleashing British belligerance, and yoked enterprising, peace-loving Americans to the death, bloodshed, and vast waste of fighting Europe's war.

Still not convinced that U.S. engagement in WWII was inconsistent with our government's responsibility to defend and uphold the individual rights of its citizens? In a libertarian society, there can by principle be no military draft, and no taxation. How would a rights-defending night-watchman government ever conduct such a non-defensive and unjust war? The obvious answer is: it could not.

I have read that John Hospers once reported that Ayn Rand remarked at a party in the sixties that it was fine with her if the state taxed 80% of one's income for the sake of defense. If true, that anecdote--and the small amount of writing she devoted to the subject--proves to my satisfaction that Miss Rand gave scant thought to the issue of individual rights and state war-making.



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Post 19

Friday, January 21, 2005 - 5:57amSanction this postReply
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Anthony Gregoy said:

The only objective way to stop such tragedy is to refrain from war.
Thats rediculous, far more people have been killed by domestic acts of murder by their own government than have been killed in all the wars in recorded history.  If a war is undertaken to remove a genocidal maniac, it may certainly result in far fewer deaths.  I am not saying this is to be used in all cases, but your comment is clearly disengenious.  Consider the Cambodian genocide and its 3 million victims, are you really suggesting that had the US continued to support Lon Nol against the North Vietnamese backed Khmere Rouge that MORE than 3 million people would have been killed?  More people were killed by democide of by the North Vietnamese then were killed in the entire Vietnam War.  More people were murdered by governments in Indo China from 1974 - 1980 then all of the American war dead.  Stopping oppresive murderous dictatorial regimes is what ends wars, not the other way around. 

In response to R.J. Rummel's critique of Ivan Eland of The Independent Institute, where I work, I thought I'd post this url to a blog entry of mine.

http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/007161.html
Apparently Rummel has posted a response to some of your comments:

”War, Democide, and Liberventionism” (1/11/05)

By Anthony Gregory
“Lew [LewRockwell.com blog], it is indeed a huge disappointment to see Rummel on the dark side. I would never pretend to have anything on his excellent accomplishments in scholarship, however I have for a while had an intuitive skepticism of the ‘democide’ school of thought, especially as it relates to foreign policy.”

Dark side? Me? Maybe all those democides I wrote about went to my head, you know, like we should do something to prevent them.



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