My First Objectivist

Well then...

[Tyson goes to abebooks.com]

[Tyson searches for ITOE, 2nd. ed]

[Tyson enters his credit card info... tomorrow]

Thanks for the recommendation John and thanks for the push/info Ted.

Tyson

Post 41

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:01am

Tyson:
~ Yeah, the 2nd ed is well worth the extra stuff in the appendices.
~ I remember my 1st-yr college philo-prof stressing that after reading anything in philo, whatever by whomever, r-e-a-d it over a-g-a-i-n...at least a 2nd time. You'll usually find (if the writer's actually coherent) that you missed something or now understand the writer's subject better. --- Sorta like noticing 'important' things in a well-crafted movie the 2nd time around, you know.

Like, we're talking 'dense' subjects here, right? Verbal calculus, in effect. Not everything will be 'digested' (or maybe even noticed!) 1st time through.

LLAP
J:D

Post 42

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 8:43am

I'm in good company here. It seems many of us never met an Objectivist until we became one ourselves. As for me, I'm still looking to find one. I am, as of now, the Objectivist that people meet for the first time around here.

P.S. - Last night my wife and I had a long chat over what being an Objectivist is. She still doesn't get it and refuses to read any of Rands work, other than the Fountainhead. She'll come around eventually, I think. After speaking with her I have to admit that I am merely a student of the philosophy, however that does not bother me for now.
(Edited by Steve
on 7/23, 8:59am)

Post 43

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 3:34pm

Steve,

What did your wife think of The Fountainhead? Did she like it?

I almost wish they'd remake that movie, instead of all this dicking around with Atlas.

Does anyone know who owns the movie rights to Fountainhead?

Post 44

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 6:56pm

She loved it. She absolutely loved it. She is not so interested in reading Atlas (I think because it is much larger and more preachy), but found The Fountainhead to be very interesting and stimulating.

The problem she is having, as I see it, is what most people have a problem with when they are introduced to a new way of thinking; she wants to incorporate the concepts found in The Fountainhead with old concepts and presumptions about the world. Of course, this will only lead to frustration and eventually the dropping of the better.

As for the movie adaptation of The Fountainhead, I have never seen it and want to very much.

Post 45

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:33pm

maybe this will whet your appetite.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc7oZ9yWqO4

Post 46

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:47pm

Thanks Robert. That made my day.

Post 47

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:55pm

That is a dirty trick Robert. Now I have to go out and buy the movie so I can see the whole 'flick'.

Post 48

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:45pm

http://www.amazon.com/Fountainhead-Gary-Cooper/dp/B000HWZ4A2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-0323010-9266203?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1185259421&sr=8-3

Post 49

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 6:30pm

Steve wrote,

P.S. - Last night my wife and I had a long chat over what being an Objectivist is. She still doesn't get it and refuses to read any of Rands work, other than the Fountainhead. She'll come around eventually, I think. After speaking with her I have to admit that I am merely a student of the philosophy, however that does not bother me for now.

Well, we're hear to help in whatever way we can. So forward your wife's questions and we'll see if we can answer them, or at least refer you to a better source of information.

- Bill

Post 50

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:11pm

I'm not sure that this is the right place to post this, however I'll at least get started here (mainly because I don't know how to start a thread of my own).

My wifes hesitancy toward Objectivism, I believe, stems from her understanding of what it means to be a 'selfish' person. She frequently states that she would rather not be a selfish bastard looking out only for number one. To which I explain that being selfish does not mean that one is a bastard, that being selfish, in the Objectivists point of view, means being rational also.

This should be a good starting point.

Post 51

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 3:40am

Probably the biggest issue most people have, because they just don't understand how Rand used the concept.

As usual, the "rational" part of the concept is being ignored.

Its "rational selfishness." Your wife would get an incredible amount of understanding by reading the "Virtue of Selfishness," and trusting her own mind. Its not about using other people at all. Its about how valuable she really is, not how wicked. :)

Read parts of it to her, see what she thinks, or write down her objections and post them. I personally enjoy that sort of thing. :)

I have to get to work, weekday mornings are terrible for me.

Post 52

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 5:06am

Hey, reading the stuff to her does work most of the time. Of Rands books which I feel are the most important for a newbie, VoS and Atlas might be the best to start with. It wasn't until I read VoS that I really started to understand what Rand meant in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. It might work my reading a little at a time to her. Besides, you can't beat the size of it.

Post 53

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 9:27am

Remember, part of her response to the idea of selfishness as she see it is the consequence of the zero-sum view of the world - one's gain is at another's expense, or if you don't sacrifice to others, then others sacrifice to you - itself the result of the Otherism doctrine....[see my Taking Syndrome article...]
(Edited by robert malcom on 7/25, 9:28am)

Post 54

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 6:42pm

I haven't read VoS in so long. I should read it again myself.

For newbies, I always recommend "Philosophy: Who Needs It?" It's just my absolute favorite non-fiction Rand.

Post 55

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 6:53pm

Isn't "Philosophy: Who Needs It?" a printing of the speeches from her fiction? Now that would be a great book and one to pass out at the fair.

Post 56

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 7:18pm

No - you're thinking of For the New Intellectual....... Philosophy: Who Needs It is a collection of her writings from her Ayn Rand Letters, with the title one and Faith and Force being speeches she gave...

Post 57

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:39pm

Steve.

Ask your wife if she believes that women are morally obligated to sacrifice their interests for the sake of others -- that women have a duty to place the interests of others (especially the interests of men) above their own, and that they have no moral right to pursue their own needs and values. If she says, "Emphatically not!" as I expect she will, then tell her that she's an ethical egoist. :-)

- Bill

Post 58

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 4:47am

That's great Bill. I'll ask her that, duck and cover, and then we can have a great talk.

Post 59

Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:15am