My First Objectivist

The subject just came up on another thread of the first Objectivist Bill Dwyer ever met and the first I ever met.

As opposed to the first novel they read, would others like to describe and explain when and where was the first Objectivist (or student of Objectivism) they ever met -where there was some substantive contact?

And whether meeting that person was disappointing, alienating, impressive, uplifting, or a somewhat mixed bag. Or whatever (this last is an advanced concept used in Peikoff's graduate ethics seminars.)

Post 1

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 4:55pm

The first Objectivist I ever met (besides my younger brother :-)) was my best friend in college. We met on the first day of orientation and liked each other instantly. Neither of us knew the other was an Objectivist until about a month later. We are both avid chessplayers and love all of the technical subjects. He went on to get a Math PhD. He now works for Los Alamos National Laboratories. Of my other Objectivist friends in college, one is a quantum physicist in Canada and another is a computer programmer.

Jim

Post 2

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 5:09pm

If Mark Scott was an Objectivist, than he was it. Mark was a popular radio talk show host in Detroit, and he loved Ayn Rand. He gave a talk about the lack of objectivity in journalism for a packed room in Holly Michigan, and I got tickets for the dinner event. Mark was wonderful. Warm, friendly, extremely polite. He made a point of being introduced to everyone in the room (over 100 people). My mom was a huge fan, so I brought her with me. She was thrilled to meet him. My mother died suddenly a few months later, so that event is crystalized in my memory.
I don't know if the people sitting at our table were Objectivists or not (Libertarians for sure), but they were a fall down riot. We all had a fabulous time. I'll never forget it.

I didn't really know what an "Objectivist" was at that time. I only knew that Ayn Rand was great, and so was Mark Scott.

Post 3

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 5:58pm

The first Objectivist I met was my buddy John Paul Sherman - tho, like with Watson and Holmes, there was technically another who introduced us, the roomate of John who was leaving.... and would have to say was the most serendipitous meeting ever for me, as out of all of Milwaukee, out of all those who then were members of the NBI local group, I ended with the one true serious Student of Objectivism, and for the following decade he and I were involved in ever so many intellectual discussions on all manner of subject, mostly via correspondence, since I moved from Milwaukee in '71 ..... but thru him, and those he knew, got to meet much of the Inner Circle, including Rand herself... surprisingly, I think it was because of not actually joining any group, and yet getting correspondence from so many of them, it allowed me to grasp the issues on my own without undue influence from being among any 'cult' groupies - which, actually, was how Rand wanted it from the beginning..... [and no - aside from John's correspondence, nothing remains, the rest having been destroyed in a kitchen fire when made the terrible error of taking the other packet with me for some off-duty writing... it was on the shelf under the microwave and some fool put something in which NEVER should had gone in, causing an explosion and fire on all the paper in that area, tho very fortunately no one was in the immediate area so no injuries...] [of John's correspondence, still have the thick folders of them, including copies of what wrote to him, so maybe some day a book of this can result]

Post 4

Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 2:10pm

My first Objectivist was Doctor Ellen Kenner (our children went to school together) who introduced me to John Lewis (not yet Doctor) and others whose intellectual stimulation motivated me to study Objectivism.

Post 5

Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 6:08pm

I do not understand the question.

A buddy in YAF gave me Anthem in the 10th grade and by the 11th, I had a girlfriend who was reading Atlas, etc., etc., with me. It was great! But we knew that we were not "Objectivists" only students thereof.

Nathaniel Branden was the first (possibly the only) true Objectivist I met, but I did not really "meet" him because we were not introduced.

So, the answer could be that I have never met an Objectivist.

Would anyone care to step forward?

Post 6

Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 12:06pm

Michael Marotta,

Let me ask you something....what is the difference between an Objectivist, and a student f Objectivism, and any other flavor you can think of. I'm curious....

Ethan

Post 7

Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 1:09pm

Ethan Dawe asked about the difference between an Objectivist and a student of Objectivism.

Ayn Rand wanted to control her intellectual property rights and insisted that she owned the name Objectivism. Therefore, college clubs -- for instance -- could not call themselves the Objectivist Club or Objectivist Society, but had to say that they were the Campus Students of Objectivism. This applied to all such groups, in town, in the army, etc., not just to schools. This was vigorously defended. In fact, in accordance with the theory of "groupthink" by William Whyte, there were "enforcers" -- other students of Objectivism who would withdraw their moral sanctions if you attempted to call yourself an Objectivist. The Brandens were Objectivists. Then, Ayn Rand suggested that Dr. NB might be happier as an existentialist. As far as I know, Dr. LP and perhaps Harry Binswanger were the only ones still standing who actually have the Official Handshake.

So, in this day and age, you can be an Objectivist because you said so, but for those of us who have been around a while, the old traditions die hard. This applies when talking about the old days. My high school girlfriend and I were students of Objectivism, but you and I are Objectivists.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 6/17, 1:14pm)

Post 8

Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:11pm

Let's not get hung up on semantics...the thread is experiential, not philosophical or theoretical.

Just to ask people to simply tell us of their encountering an individual, someone seriously interested in Ayn Rand.

And, really, to describe that person in a substantive way.

And how he or she came across to you. And how the encounter felt. (First times of -anything- important are usually memorable.)

(Edited by Philip Coates
on 6/17, 9:16pm)

Post 9

Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:39pm

It was Jay Friedenberg. I met him at the FEE seminar in July 1994. The second was Bidinotto, who was a speaker there.

Post 10

Monday, June 18, 2007 - 4:11am

Thanks you Michael.

P.S. I Still haven't met another Objectivist face-to-face!

Ethan

Post 11

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 12:46pm

My first Objectivists were David and Laura, at Illinois State University. Don't remember how we met; I think one of us had written a letter to the editor of the school paper that mentioned Rand, and one of us called that person and we got together. We hung out together a few times but didn't really hit it off. Part of it might have been that they were having troubles in their relationship, and had trouble continuing to interact with me as a couple.

I thought David was a bit arrogant... not sure if that's the word, but... he was one of these smart guys who habitually used big words. I don't think he would ever have been caught saying "I'm a smart guy" though; it would have to be "I am an intelligent person." I remember he used the word "essentially" in just about every sentence.

Post 12

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 5:27pm

Laure, I don't know how popular it is in the rest of the world, but in silicon valley, everyone always says "Basically,...". We do try to simplify things in order to just communicate the abstract idea without going into the details, but you'll find people who use it in every sentence. I could see "Essentially,.." being used in the same way.

Post 13

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 5:54pm

Yes, it's funny how those expressions get going. Around here, I hear "...but the reality is..." a lot, or sometimes "... the reality is, is..." LOL!

Post 14

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 9:28pm

I am the first objectivist (sic) I ever met. I influenced others I knew to adopt objectivism (Rand's general principles) to their lives, and like me, they double-majored in a science and philosophy. I didn't really meet an Objectivist until the late nineties when I joined the Cornell Objectivism list where I intereacted with Bill Dwyer, Monart Pon, Roger Bissell, Nathaniel Branden, Chris Sciabarra, Diana Mertz, and then met Bob Bidinotto and David Kelley one time when they were up in Poughkeepsie. I attended one Objectivist soiree in Brooklyn and have also met Chris Sciabarra and Roger Bissell, and corresponded long ago with a certain infamous homosexual Kiwi libertarian activist - he didn't remember our brief correspondence. I had dinner a few weeks ago with a renowned poster here who has been otherwise too busy to post too much recently.

What struck me was not my first Objectivist, but the way in which other people would furtively admit to me that they had liked Rand (as if we were mutually outed to each other) or the vicious vitriol that I would get out of the blue from people who hated Rand.

I generally am not concerned with whether people call themselves by a label, but by how the reflect themselves in their reactions to her.

Ted

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 6/20, 8:38pm)

Post 15

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 12:51am

I generally am not concerned with whether people call themselves by a label, but by how the reflect themselves in their reactions to her. (Ted)

I couldn't agree more.

After discovering and devouring Rand's works on my own, I met a guy named Jerry who knew of Rand, but had never read her. He already had a serious interest in philosophy (he walked around with a copy of The Pocket Nietzsche), so I gave him a copy of The Fountainhead, and he took to Rand like a fish to water.
He eventually read all of her other works, too, and absolutely loved her...mainly because what she had to say mirrored how he felt about his life, anyway. I don't know if he ever decided to call himself "Objectivist" (though I seriously doubt it, as he really did not like, or feel the need for, labels.)
But the way he lived his life was as close a match to what I've always felt an Objectivist life should look like; he lived rationally, joyously, and well.

So I guess I'm the first Objectivist I've ever known, and Jerry was kind of the second, in a way. Oh, and at a Libertarian Party convention I met my third, a retired airline pilot who absolutely considered himself O'ist. He was wonderfully delightful company; by far, one of finest people I ever met, especially at an LP event. (Anyone who has ever been to an LP meeting or convention knows that it's a crapshoot as far as finding another actual Objectivist in the place.)

Everyone else I've ever known who was a self-identified Objectivist was someone I met online, in a forum like this.

Erica

Post 16

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:35am

Erica,

With a smile like yours, who needs Objectivism?
While the healthy may have no need of medicine,
the study of the body may still bring joy.
"Objectivists," cure yourselves.

Ted

Post 17

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:49am

When I mentioned "My introduction to Objectivism," to which Phil referred in his initial post, I meant the first formal presentation of the philosophy via The Nathaniel Branden Institute's "Basic Principles of Objectivism" in 1963, which is where I encountered the angry business rep at the entrance to the lecture hall. She was not the first "Objectivist" I met, fortunately, nor my first encounter with the ideas.

While I was in the Navy in 1961-62, one of the men in my division kept recommending The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, both of which looked prohibitively long. I had a phobia about long novels (short attention span!), so I begged off. Then I found a copy of Anthem sitting on a table in the barracks. "Ah," I said, "this is more my speed." (pretty bad, huh!) That got me hooked. I was impressed not only by the quality of the writing but also by her succinct presentation of the concepts of egoism and rights. I'd never heard anything like it before; it was a huge intellectual awakening for me. I went on to read The Fountainhead, which I enjoyed as much as Anthem, if that's possible, and which, in my opinion, is a better novel than Atlas Shrugged, even though the latter is a more robust and definitive presentation of the philosophy.

I thought Rand was a man and was amazed to discover that the author was a woman. I had a real prejudice against female authors, because I thought that they couldn't write from a man's perspective.

I next subscribed to "The Objectivist Newsletter," in which I was informed of the lecture series, and shortly after being discharged from the Navy, signed up for "The Basic Principles" -- my first formal introduction to Objectivism. I took all of the courses offered by NBI, including one by Alan Greenspan on economics, in which he discussed "the pyramid of ability," as well as various courses by Nathaniel Branden on different aspects of psychology, an "Efficient Thinking" course by Barbara Branden, a course on art by Mary-Ann Rukavina Sures, and one on Rand's epistemology by Leonard Peikoff, which, strangely enough, is no longer being offered. It was an amazing 5 years -- from 1963 to 1968. And then it all came crashing down! Who knows what direction it would have gone had the split not occurred, although I suspect that other factions would have developed, just as they've done since then. This, it would appear, is the fate of all intellectual movements.

- Bill

Post 18

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:59am

Bill, I agree with you that The Fountainhead is technically a better novel than Atlas Shrugged. But the latter is certainly more fun.

I hate short novels, they end too quickly!

If you have the time and want to read an excellent long novel written by a woman, I cannot strongly enough recommend Marion Zimmer Bradley's Mists of Avalon. It tells the story of King Arthur from the pagan and woman's point of view, based on impeccable reasearch and done with incredible skill. The characters are all extremely well developed, the plot as intricate as Atlas Shrugged. I rate it in my Top 10, along with I, Claudius and other obvious favorites like Heinlein, Tolkien, and Rand.

Ted

Post 19

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 2:46pm