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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:42amSanction this postReply
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Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi is dead. Wouldn't this be a great time to declare success in Iraq, and get out?

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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:50amSanction this postReply
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Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi is dead.
Good news!

Wouldn't this be a great time to declare success in Iraq, and get out?
Another, intermediate, and perhaps strategically convenient, option, would be to get nearly all the infantry out, and leave a couple or three military bases to keep the region under surveillance --combined to the Pentagon satellites.

Joel Català

(Edited by Joel Català on 6/08, 7:12am)


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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 6:55amSanction this postReply
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Yes, let's leave.  That way, new thugs can rise up, gain power, and we get to do this all over again in another 10 years.

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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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Here is some brilliant commentary that Thomas Barnett just posted on his blog:  http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/

I like the ending quote in particular:

So let us be clear and realistic in our purpose: to actualize our definition of a future worth creating, one defined by universal freedoms enabled by connectivity and the rule sets that engenders, we are effectively killing our foes’ definition of a future worth preserving. For every dream of individual freedom we enable, competing dreams of collective oppression are destroyed.



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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 11:32amSanction this postReply
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"Yes, let's leave. That way, new thugs can rise up, gain power, and we get to do this all over again in another 10 years."

That's just crazy. We need to stay and prop up the new Iraqi government, at an annual cost of 1,000 soldiers' lives and $100,000,000,000, until the sun exhausts its fuel.


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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 12:34pmSanction this postReply
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Well, pay now or pay later.  I think paying now (if done right) will be the better investment.  There is no guarantee it will be, but I think it will be just fine over time. 

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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:06pmSanction this postReply
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I completely and utterly agree with Kurt.   Al Qaida isn't dead yet.  And we won't be able to establish stable trade until the region is totally secure. If American business people start making trips to Iraq without American military acting as security, more Western heads will roll.  I have no doubt in my mind.

Cutting off trade with Iraq isn't in the cards for the USA, nor should it be.    


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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:24pmSanction this postReply
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Kurt and Teresa, what is it that we are accomplishing in Iraq? So far we have established a Muslim theocracy that does not respect individual rights. Is that worth the lives of our soldiers?

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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 4:45pmSanction this postReply
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Kurt and Teresa, what is it that we are accomplishing in Iraq? So far we have established a Muslim theocracy that does not respect individual rights. Is that worth the lives of our soldiers?
Sounds like you've been listening to way too much, O'Reilly, Jonathan.  ;)

Well, lets see,

1) Democratic political system with checks and balances, opposed to an autocratic, tyrannical, kleptocratic dictatorship.

2) Groundwork for a constitution outlining individual rights, as opposed to an autocratic, tyrannical, kleptocratic dictatorship that tested chemical weapons on his own people.

3) Eliminated the constant threat to Kuwait, and important Western ally in the Middle East.

4) Opened up economic opportunities to the poorest of citizens, formally closed by a tyrannical, kleptocratic, autocratic dictator.

5) Cut off money flowing to Al Qaida from kleptocratic administration permanently in power.

6) Established peaceful transition of power after elections.

7) Established open lines of communication, and transparencies of power.

Jonathan, did you ever get hired for a job, and during your first three months of employment there, you had a very very loose grip on what the heck you were doing and why?  That's why we can't leave yet.


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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 5:18pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, I'm sure I could come up with about 100 other "autocratic, tyrannical, kleptocratic dictatorships" around the world. Do you advocate that we invade all of these countries?

2) Groundwork for a constitution outlining individual rights, as opposed to an autocratic, tyrannical, kleptocratic dictatorship that tested chemical weapons on his own people.
I noticed you used the word groundwork, as if you recognize that the current constitution does not protect individual rights. This, like all battles, is at its core a philosophical one. How can we possibly expect to win on the political front, when we are compromising our philosophical principles?
I believe it was Rand who said, "In any compromise between good and evil it is only evil that can profit." (or something similar)
3) Eliminated the constant threat to Kuwait, and important Western ally in the Middle East.
If we all uphold the morality of self-interested action, then why do we not extend it to our governments actions? Shouldn't the primary, no the only, concern of our government be to protect the individual lives of its citizens? What better place to start with than the lives of its own soldiers. Protecting Kuwait is a terrible reason to send our soldiers into harms way.

I would note, protecting our citizens lives does not mean getting involved in wars in order to keep the supply of oil going. As laissez-faire capitalists (most of us I assume), we should all recognize that fact.


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Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 8:51pmSanction this postReply
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I fear that the Zarqawi hit is merely symbolic.  Given that he's been public enemy number one for some time now, it's safe to say that a carefully devised succession plan has been laid out. 

And clearly, the effect this will have on staving off a full blown civil war between Shiites and Sunnis seems next to nil.   

(Edited by Pete on 6/08, 9:02pm)


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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 11:41amSanction this postReply
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I was watching the news this morning, and came across this headline: Guns, knives, etc. found in Al-Zarqawi unsafe house.
 
I burst out laughing. I have never heard the concept "unsafe house" used before, so I assumed it would properly be the opposite of "safe house," which we all know the definition of. 
 
My question is: when does a "safe house" become an "unsafe house?" Is it when a bomb is dropped on it? When it has been exposed? When its founders have been destroyed or driven out?


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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 1:13pmSanction this postReply
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As I've posted elsewhere, Bin Laden has said of his minions, "These youth love death as you love life." Glad we could give Zarqawi what he loves!

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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 4:52pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, I'm sure I could come up with about 100 other "autocratic, tyrannical, kleptocratic dictatorships" around the world. Do you advocate that we invade all of these countries?
Oh, hell yes!  Where do I sign up??  Even Iran is shaking in their boots over this, not to mention the armpits of the Middle East, Pakistan and Palestine. They talk a lot of shit, but when it comes down to it, they'll put up or shut up. They do not want to duke it out with us.  

I noticed you used the word groundwork, as if you recognize that the current constitution does not protect individual rights.
Note that we engaged in long long long negotiations with the new Iraqi government to apply this groundwork. We would not approve the new administration until an acceptable constitution was in writing.  Is it identical to our Constitution? No. Should it be? Maybe.

How can we possibly expect to win on the political front, when we are compromising our philosophical principles?
I believe it was Rand who said, "In any compromise between good and evil it is only evil that can profit." (or something similar)

Which principles are being compromised and how, exactly?   Rand would have stood on a chair and cheered if we dropped a big one on Red Square while she was alive.  Don't even doubt it.

 If we all uphold the morality of self-interested action, then why do we not extend it to our governments actions? Shouldn't the primary, no the only, concern of our government be to protect the individual lives of its citizens? What better place to start with than the lives of its own soldiers. Protecting Kuwait is a terrible reason to send our soldiers into harms way. 

Tell that to the Kuwaities. They love us, sell us oil, and invest in American industry because of what we do for them.
Those soldiers are protecting American trade interests. It's not all for nothing. Making a new path to trade is what it's all about.  We're not only protecting a global marketplace, but expanding it with this effort.


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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 5:14pmSanction this postReply
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Many may find this idiotic, but I am forever paranoid.... What if Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi isn't really dead????

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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 7:12pmSanction this postReply
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Jamie N.,

You paranoid, delusional alarmist (I'm right there with you -- on the very fringes of sanity!), if Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi wasn't dead, then he has irresistible incentive to rear his ugly head -- in order to make his enemy appear a fool.

A.M.A-Z. (because we haven't heard from him by now) is as dead as a doorknob. Other conclusions are not viable.

Ed


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Friday, June 9, 2006 - 7:41pmSanction this postReply
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Jamie,

He's really, completely, honestly and most assuredly d-e-a-d! 


Post 17

Friday, June 9, 2006 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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That's not paranoid! Real paranoia is: What if Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi never existed?


Post 18

Friday, June 9, 2006 - 9:53pmSanction this postReply
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Jesus Christ - that would be something, huh........

Post 19

Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 12:42amSanction this postReply
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Alright Aaron, you sure came out of the blocks with THAT one!

Ed
[now wishes he had took the 'blue' pill]


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