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Post 20

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:43amSanction this postReply
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Rich,

As you quoted, I am very interested in crowd psychology.

Part of the make-up of the human psyche is an attraction to other members of the same species. Whether this is a leftover from our evolution from non-conceptual animals, or this is an inherent characteristic of many higher forms of life, I am not sure. I do know that it exists. This forum is even one of the proofs of that.

There is a seeming paradox in Objectivism, if you take the selfishness focus to a metaphysical extreme and exclude species considerations. If you exist only for yourself, how on earth can a romantic partner become a HIGHEST VALUE?

Even if you qualify the word "highest" with "one of the" - reading "one of the highest values" - you are still talking about another person. This goes way beyond sex. The emotion  of love is intrinsically tied to species, then higher forms of life, then lower forms of life and so on - going on down in a hierarchical scale.

For example, it certainly would be an abnormal form of valuing to love a tree with the same intensity as one loves a romantic partner. (I'll leave the fetish implications to your imagination   //;-)

On this line of thought, people group together because they value that - and I think a component is a species thing, just like love is. Not the whole story, maybe, but an essential part.

A feeling of belonging to something greater than yourself is powerful stuff. Wars cannot be fought without it. Can you imagine soldiers who don't know each other trying to kill each other without believing they are right and are part of a greater good or value than their own lives?

Without that "feeling" or emotion of belonging, most would simply say, "Fuck this. I don't even know you, dude," and walk off the battlefield.

On the Internet, even with the sensory deprivation you mention, the psychology of "belonging to something larger" is the same, from what I can see.

Observe the hurt feelings when others do not agree with a person. The acrimony that flares up. Then how this turns into group participation if one of the core values is involved in the discussion.

What is left out of this observation, however, is another crucial aspect of crowd behavior: the ringleader.

Crowds are not swayed without ringleaders.

If the crowd is coming after you, the only defense you have if you are alone is to face down the ringleaders. Once you get them to back off, the crowd always backs off. Or, if not, it is because new ringleaders have popped up. (Watch traditional Westerns - this is a standard cliche.)

This leads me to think that there is something inherently social (only a small part, maybe, but an existing part) in the human psyche's wiring for making value choices.

This issue actually deserves another thread.

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/26, 11:44am)

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/26, 1:04pm)


Post 21

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 1:47pmSanction this postReply
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This leads me to think that there is something inherently social (only a small part, maybe, but an existing part) in the human psyche's wiring for making value choices.
 
We surely should take this over to SOLO Psychology.

I'm looking at the AQAL model when I trace this all back, it's useful. A good one is at: http://www.formlessmountain.com/KW-WTC/footnotes/aqal.html

regards,
rde
Off to pick up kiddies.




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Post 22

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:33pmSanction this postReply
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Michael:

     I agree with you and Rich: this whole subject belongs on 'another thread'...relevently in SOLO Psychology...since it's evolved into the subject of Crowd-Psychology, and how it ('may'?) pertain to O'ist groups. An overlooked subject on it's own, fer sure.

    As to the worth of your original 'open-letter' for this thread, uh, I think you're wasting your time, from all I've read (both Here and *There*) by this guy who thinks that so many (especially at SOLO) are putting him 'in danger'...whilst he continues to advertise his presence wherever he can; continually spewing insults at all-and-any (including very obviously-tolerating moderators like Lindsay and Regi) who disagree/criticize him about ANY thing he says, is not the most rational way to avoid 'danger.'

    I had read some stuff of his here and was going to do some responding, but got caught up in other things (like, life-'commitments'), and found he was gone, yet I was not privy as to why; I see 'why' now.

    As an aside, I didn't know that *I* (because I post at SOLO) was such a crappy person 'cause I didn't defend his stuff (like, as if I had read most of it everywhere he posted when I first started reading here.) Clearly, all others who didn't defend him against the horrible tyranny of Lindsay are just as evil.

LLAP
J:D

P.S: Good referencing re Regi and Cass, for all that's gone on of which I'm more-or-less aware. Ergo, you been sancti-bonked.


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Post 23

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:46pmSanction this postReply
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John,

I took it to psychology yesterday. You can find it here:

http://solohq.com/Forum/SoloPsychology/0008.shtml#0

I see on the member list that you belong to that forum, you will have no problem accessing it. Thanks for the comments.

Michael


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