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Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:15pmSanction this postReply
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Joe M wrote, in response to me...or perhaps to AR...or perhaps to AP, wondering what any of the content of the two expose threads ("Who is Andy P and a question for Adam R) has, if anything, to do with Objectivism.  I pondered....Here's my thought:
 
Objectivism is the philosophy in which selfishness (life promoting self-interest) is the paramount virtue of life.  Clashing with this are many other modern practiced religious and non-religious philosophies.  Christianity is the antithesis of hedonism (no fun, boo hoo) and purity is the goal.  Buddhism is centered around ending suffering in both the individual soul and the greater universe (focus is most often on the latter).  Socialism and Communism focus on the collective group, and completely dismiss the individual.  Judaism is centered dually around reveling in the wonders of the world (like hedonism) and healing the world (Tikkun Olam)...kind of like the camping idea, "Enjoy what's here but leave your campsite nicer than when you arrived."
 
So, getting back to Joe's question, I think the above mentioned discussion threads get to the heart of the concept of Objectivism.  Does the philosophy imply that we should do anything and everything we want--even murder, rape, or abuse children?  Does it mean we should do anything we want as long as the intent is not specifically to damage or cause pain?  What about when the intent is not malevolent, but the action would clearly harm someone or something else?  Or are we all supposed to walk with our sight glued to the ground, careful not to so much as squash an ant or soil a rug with our feet?
 
This discussion went to the heart of that very debate.  In fact, it is perhaps the perfect vignette to analyze human behavior and determine when selfishness is virtuous and when selfishness is vile.  Is it ever either of these, or is it always neither of these?
 
Humor, revenge, pride, understanding, dissent, clarity, confusion, anger, repulsion--they were experienced not just by Andy and Adam, but by everyone else in the discussion.
 
Everyone on this site posts here fulfilling some need or desire (to find friends, to seem smart(er than everyone else), to stimulate their minds, to procrastinate on more important things.  Everyone in the discussion on Andy and Adam was also fulfilling a need: some subset of getting their thoughts heard.  Where does everyone fall on the selfishness scale?
 
OOHH!!  One more thing...guilt and objectivism.  Does saying you're sorry for trashing someone (with truth OR lies) mean that you aren't a true objectivist (since you're not doing it for yourself) or does it mean that you are just a more morally developed good-natured person who knows when he/she did something wrong and actually gets satisfaction out of cleaning the slate?


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Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:21pmSanction this postReply
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I think maybe I should have picked a more juicy title, selfishly helping a little traffic to show up on this thread.  Next time...

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:39pmSanction this postReply
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Um, I was thinking more along the lines of getting past the vendettas...but kudos, Halina, for taken it seriously, even I was wondering if there was any value in this fiasco...you raise some valid points, I just think the tabloid nature of this would detract from any valuable discussion.

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 11:31pmSanction this postReply
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Halina,

Good topic. 'Judaism is centered dually around reveling in the wonders of the world (like hedonism) and healing the world (Tikkun Olam)...kind of like the camping idea, "Enjoy what's here but leave your campsite nicer than when you arrived."'

The central idea of Objectivism is primacy of existence, not primacy of consciousness. This implies that self-interest has to with the Self qua existent - qua organism living on Earth by production and trade - and NOT just with the Self qua an "I want to feel good" consciousness. The objective is to benefit the Self by making oneSelf existentially better, in the sense of better at living on Earth, and better at cooperation and trade with other humans.

So change the above to "Enjoy what's here but make your Self better than when you arrived," and you have an idea of what I'm trying to get for my Self on SOLO. For me, it means testing ideas for improving my Self against reality. Sometimes a bad idea will get disconfirmed very, very hard, as has just happened to me. But disconfirmation of not-A is how one learns and knows A. Self-interest includes payment, for making oneself better, with occasional pain. That really would not mesh very well with hedonism.


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