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Post 60

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:00pmSanction this postReply
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Science, science science. I thought religion could produce some narrow focus. It doesn't matter where it comes from, I suppose.

Post 61

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 6:36pmSanction this postReply
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Rich, I just bonked you up to 251 Atlas points. Congrats.

--Brant

(Edited by Brant Gaede on 8/16, 6:37pm)


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Post 62

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:48amSanction this postReply
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Wow! Well, thank you, sir. :)

Post 63

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 6:52pmSanction this postReply
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I'm still new here, so be gentle...

Any of you aware of Rupert Sheldrake's work with pets and their owners?  Dogs commonly have the ability to predict when their owners are coming home before any conventional awareness could alert them.  The experiments as I recall, went like this:  the dog's owner would be sent out of the house and an experimenter would call the owner at a randomly selected time and tell him to go home.  It was found that the pets would go to their accustomed waiting position, by the door or by a window at the moment which their owners got off the phone and started home.  The dogs were left alone at home with only video cameras to observe their behavior, so there was no way of cueing the animal. 

As others here have stated, science has a very difficult time studying human consciousness because of all the personal and situational variables.  If indeed there are "emotional fields" it seems reasonable that science could be largely ignorant of their existence even today.  You can't do repeatable research until you know what's repeating and how to recreate it.  Dogs are a good deal simpler in their consciousness than humans, and Sheldrake seems to be making a good start with the dogs.


Post 64

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 9:00pmSanction this postReply
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A good point very well stated, Kevin. 

Anomalous cognition is a general term describing a transfer of information to a subject through currently unknown means….

Sounds pretty darned anomalous to me...and not the least bit "mystical."



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Post 65

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 9:45pmSanction this postReply
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Kevin-
 If indeed there are "emotional fields" it seems reasonable that science could be largely ignorant of their existence even today.
Science is not ignorant of their existence, because in controlled study after double-blind controlled study after controlled study, science has found no evidence for their existence.  For any on you people who believe such hocus-pocus, there is a guy named James Randi who has a million dollars on the table to anyone who can demonstrate the existence, in controlled studies, of such nonsense.  Look him up at  http://www.randi.org/research/index.html


Post 66

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:34pmSanction this postReply
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Jody, your aggression is very KASS and all, but just slow down a minute.  I already said "You can't do repeatable research until you know what's repeating and how to recreate it."  Emotion, mind, cognition--these are tough eggs for science to crack.  Go check out some Sheldrake, would ya?  Sheldrake's theories of "morphic resonance" apply not only to the apparent telepathy in pets I mentioned, but to the migratory precision of birds and the instantaneous mass reactions of schooling fish.  Mainstream science has no mechanism to adequately explain these movements, but a mechanism certainly exists.  Just as human beings have lost the physical prowess and fangs of lower animals, perhaps too we have lost the full capacity of other abilities.  Perhaps some people still have some access to a sort of sensory atavism.  You can go to www.sheldrake.org, it's a little watered down, but you can find some info there.  Rupert might just be able to earn himself a cool million in a few years. 

I have had a good many first hand experiences that suggest that there are some pretty startling things science has yet to catch up with; real, physical, tangible, interactive, you  know...things.  It's not a matter of belief for me, it's a matter of personal rational observation.  I'm just trying to make sense of the world we share, Jody.


Post 67

Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:29amSanction this postReply
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After reading more about Rupert Sheldrake’s experiments with dogs, I would not want to put myself in the position of saying that I endorse his findings.  I am not prepared to say that he is a crackpot.  I simply do not feel confidant that his findings should be considered reliable or that his claims are at all comparable to the kind of experience I reported at Nathaniel Branden’s intensives in the 1970’s.

 

I count myself as an admirer of the work of James Randi.  I think that he does a wonderful job of debunking fraudulent claims about paranormal “science.”

 

Here is Sheldrake’s comment about Randi, which you can access here:

 

I emailed James Randi to ask for details of this JREF research (proving that attempts to replicate Sheldrake’s experiments failed). He did not reply. He ignored a second request for information too.

I then asked members of the JREF Scientific Advisory Board to help me find out more about this claim. They did indeed help by advising Randi to reply. In an email sent on Februaury 6, 2000 he told me that the tests he referred to were not done at the JREF, but took place "years ago" and were "informal". They involved two dogs belonging to a friend of his that he observed over a two-week period. All records had been lost. He wrote: "I overstated my case for doubting the reality of dog ESP based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so."

And here is one of Randi’s many comments about Sheldrake, which you can access here:

Rupert Sheldrake is at it again! After informing me that the owners of a gifted telepathic dog in the UK had forbidden me access to test the canine for the JREF million-dollar prize, he has now revealed yet another "staggering" animal to the world.

 

The details of the dog experiments reported by Sheldrake on his website do not strike me as plausible.  At this point, I would support Randi’s skepticism of Sheldrake’s claims.

 

 

 

 


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