About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1


Post 20

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 8:58pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

There are spoilers here, but nothing anyone who follows the Star Wars movies that can put two and two together wouldn’t have figured out for themselves.

 

Okay, Eli, let’s look at the full context of the series rather than falling back to the “movie-with-corrupt-businessman-equals-bad” boilerplate, shall we? The “bad guys” in Star Wars are the Sith - evil, genocidal power-lusters – who employ a variety of useful idiots, including the Trade Federation (who barely get a mention.) Episodes 1-3 is the story of the Sith gaining control of the galaxy through what becomes the tyrannical Galactic Empire of episodes 4-6.

 

We know from Episode 1 that there can be only two Sith. (There’s a reason for this, not covered in the movies to date, but it’s actually as a consequence of a resounding defeat by the Jedi thousands of years ago.) In Episode 2, one of the Sith is Darth Sidious (aka Chancellor Palpatine), the other is Darth Tyranus (aka Count Dooku.)

 

Palpatine uses Hitler’s trick of contriving a dire threat to the republic (Dooku’s separatists) to grant him “emergency powers” - powers which ultimately make him the Emperor. The Trade Federation, in league with Count Dooku, finance a droid army, which make the separatists a more convincing threat. This makes it appear that Palpatine has “no choice” but to authorize the clone army, which ultimately becomes the Imperial stormtroopers.

 

Now, when there are only two of you, and you want to take over the galaxy, you’re going to need money. Maybe Lucas could have come up with a better way to finance the Sith than the nasty, nasty, evil idea of (*gasp*) corrupt businessmen. (Where do you think Al Qaeda gets money from?) And sure, some of the heroes in Star Wars might be “government employees who serve and perform their duties,” but then so are firefighters and soldiers. Regardless, the movie makes some pretty clear statements on the nature of politicians.

 

As for the fruit, Anakin merely said that Obi Wan (who was confirmed in Episode 1 as being unready for an apprentice) would be “grumpy” if he was caught. And arguably, Anakin turned to the Dark Side when he slaughtered the Tuscans after his mother died - before he and Amidala got married.

 

Much to learn, you have.


Post 21

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 9:30pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
the tuscans deserved to die!

maybe not the children...

by the way: how evil are the jedi that they prevented him from going back and rescuing his mom??!!

and don't try to make this whole thing (the traders and bankers financing the sith) tie in to the series as a whole, because the series doesn't make sense!

you have a grand army of the republic, some 200,000 or so, and maybe a million more coming.

what a grand army, to patroll the more than 10,000 star systems in the republic!!!!

a completely insignificant threat. they couldn't take on a continent, let alone thousands of star systems (provided those systems attempted some minimal defense).

aside: when i saw that r2d2 and c-3po were in episode 1, and anikin had dealings with them, i realised something:

when darth vadar said, in episode 4, that he felt a presense he'd not felt since...., he could have been talking about the gorram droids!

what was the point of putting them in there? and why'd lucas bring jarjar back for episode 2?

i think the movies have cruddy messages, but i'll almost certainly watch episode 3: i;m a sucker for the light-sabre battles.


"Much to learn, you have."

hey, did you ever see "george lucas in love"? it was hillarious. his professor, or advisor or something was supposed to be like yoda, and lucas asked him: "hey, can you talk... forward?"

Post 22

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:18pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Eli,

 

Yes, you’re right. “maybe not the children…”

 

The Jedi didn’t prevent Anakin from rescuing his mother. He sensed his mother’s torment in a nightmare and departed for Tatooine immediately without asking anyone’s permission.

 

As for the power of the army, just try and suspend disbelief, why don’t you? It’s a movie, man! Any army of a million elite troops with supporting superior technology (starships, weaponry, etc.) would be extremely significant against what were essentially pacified and disunited systems. The Kaminoan cloners also suggest that production of more is possible with time, so the numbers needn’t be limited to a million. Note that the clone/stormtroopers were combat troops only. When comparing military numbers, you need to include support and logistics, which would be in the multiples. And even they weren't the only military at the Empire’s disposal. Beyond what the republic already had, there was also the Imperial navy, the ISB. etc.

 

Yes, there are consistency errors with the droids. Not the least of which is around Owen Lars (Luke’s uncle.) He meets the droids in Episode 2 and then again in Episode 4 when he buys them off the Jawas, yet doesn’t remember them (and vice versa.) Granted C340 looked different and possibly all R2 units look the same. However, the errors are minor in the context of the story.

 

Jar-Jar was brought back as Palpatine’s pawn – a Senator that could be manipulated to propose the motion granting Palpatine’s emergency powers.

 

There are a lot more positive messages in Star Wars than negative ones for Objectivists if they could just get past the knee-jerk responses.

(Edited by Glenn Lamont on 8/21, 5:21pm)


Post 23

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:37pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
a million, or even 10 million is nothing compared to thousands of inhabited planets.

knee-jerk?! i'll give you a knee, jerk! j/k. i don't really see many messages in the series at all, except a few that i mentioned.

well, there is the message of: pride ("arrogance") is evil.

and um... hard to think of them...

did you notice how crappy darth vadar is with his light sabre? i think he's only won 1 fight and that was against luke, who wasn't a jedi at the time (obi-wan kind of let him win, so i wouldn't call that a victory).

where is his great power then? he's supposed to be so grand...

"The Jedi didn’t prevent Anakin from rescuing his mother. He sensed his mother’s torment in a nightmare and departed for Tatooine immediately without asking anyone’s permission."

i'm not sure, but didn't anikin have a dream about his mom at the beginning of episode 2, and he said he missed her or something, and obi-wan said not to think about it?

i can only imagine that they prevented him from saving her. why else would he have let her rot as a slave on that crappy planet?

what did anikin say that the jedi are forbidden from having/doing again? i forget exactly.

Post 24

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

The Jedi were forbidden from doing a lot of things, just like the military forces of today. Maybe that was the reason for their tragic downfall. Still, very minor in the context of the ton of positive messages throughout the series: The triumph of good versus evil (throughout); the heroism of resisting tyranny (Rebel Alliance); redemption and atonement (Darth Vader); rising from humble beginnings to achieve greatness (both Luke and Anakin); loyalty to friends (throughout); the corruptibility of democracy (Episode 2); romance (Han & Leia, Anakin & Padme); individual heroics (throughout.)

 

If all you got out of it was that it was “anti-capitalistic” and the “cool fight scenes,” (the “pacifistic” ones, you mean?) well … look harder.

(Edited by Glenn Lamont on 8/21, 5:11pm)


Post 25

Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 11:38amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Shy Kid, if you want another perspective on how Goodkind could juxtapose Rand and sword & sorcery, and another perspective on why she is labled fascist, I invite you to look at my essay on Objectivism and the classical hero cycle, and Rand's use of the Trickster archetype, at
http://jungianobjectivism.tripod.com.
I argue that despite Rand's war against religion, she adopted much of its characteristics for her own philosophy. I also present Scott Ryan's arguments that although she claimed to be an advocate of reason, she did not fully understand the subject, but instead rationalized her own subjective conclusions. In addition, I present an argument that the label of fascism is based on her centrality of reason as well as her celebration of heroism.


Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1


User ID Password or create a free account.