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Monday, July 9 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
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Steve Wolfer deserves to be restricted to Dissent.  Sanction this post if you agree.


Wolfer deserves a taste of his own medicine.  He has aggressively, obsessively demanded that those with whom he disagrees be excommunicated.  His own sins against reason have been worse than those he alleges to have been committed by others.

 

He has spread profane, uncivil discourse:

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/Dissent/0246.shtml#11

 

He has repeatedly smeared those who identify biologically objective racial differences as “racist.”  Yet his racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive of all -- the desire to obliterate all racial distinctions:

There is one more way that races will disappear. Sex, lots of sex (along with transportation to allow lots of sex between all the different races in all the different regions, and an end to stupid cultural restrictions on intermarrying - these things are happening... but that isn't something that happens in a short time.)

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/Dissent/0249_3.shtml#62

"If we work hard at "mixing" (which I think is a good idea :-) then the day
will come when it no longer makes any sense to refer to races
."

 

It's not about the freedom to mix. I don't deny anyone that freedom to anyone.

I talk about race not to annihilate any racial ancestries but to help defend and preserve the existence of well-functioning, productive, prosperous, low-crime, property-respecting free-market societies.  May aims are benevolent.  I desire more freedom, more beauty, more achievement. Wolfer’s racial obliterationism appears to be malevolent, as are all forms of egalitarianism in general and as is the post-modern fad of egalitarian racism in particular. 

 
Wolfer is a radical race-leveling egalitarian who objects to patterns of human biodiversity at the metaphysical level. He sneers at the very existence unique human phenotypes forged by tens of thousands of years of evolution and seeks to wipe them all out and replace them with a single, uniform race of brown people.  No blondes, no Cherokees in Wolfer's world.  His aesthetic is mediocrity.  An end to racial diversity and an infusion of Sub-Saharan African DNA into the whole gene pool would mean a compression of the world IQ distribution and a virtual elimination of the far right tail, which consists of people considered geniuses, which consists almost entirely of non-African people.

I seek to preserve and enhance the objective biological foundations of high-achievement in individuals and civilizations and preserve and enhance freedom and reduce vioilence and crime.  Wolfer's dysgenic prescriptions are prescriptions for civilizational degeneration:

 
Conquest of a Civilization by Open Invitation
http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/Dissent/0246_11.shtml#220
 
Because Wolfer wants Third World Muslims to help mix away distinct European (and all other) phenotypes, he would not allow Western countries to defend their borders from Muslim invasion, rape, murder, totalitarianism, and gradual colonization (see link above).  This isn't even a racial issue, but an issue of the right to national defense (as Peikoff notes), which no Objectivist would sensibly oppose in light of the nature of threat of Saudi-funded Islamification.  Now I do oppose Peikoff's calls for invading Muslim countries militarily. I'm for non-violent defensive measures unless/until an actual military threat manifests. Peikoff is over-zealous, but I think his motives (defending Western civilization from a mortal threat) are good. 
 
Wolfer's aren't.  His are egalitarian in nature.  Wolfer's dysgenic prescriptions are prescriptions for civilizational degeneration:
 
Race Mixing
http://libertarianrealist.blogspot.com/2012/07/race-mixing.html
 

Lynn Barkley Burnett and Jonathan Adler, the authors of a 2005 study on domestic violence in the United States, found that “the incidence of spousal homicide is 7.7 times higher in interracial marriages compared to intraracial marriages.” ...an older study found that white men who married black women were 21.4 times more likely to be killed by their spouses than white men who married white women. A white woman increased her risk of being killed 12.4 times by marrying a black man. [Fatal Violence Among Spouses in the United States, 1976-85, by James A. Mercy and Linda Saltzman, American Journal of Public Health, May, 1989.]

Dr. J. Richard Udry’s 2003 study of 90,000 middle- and high-school students found that black/white and white/Asian children were more likely to be depressed, sleep badly, skip school, smoke, drink, consider suicide, and have sex than children of just one race. [Health and Behavior Risks of Adolescents with Mixed-Race Identity, American Journal of Public Health, November 2003]




 

 

 
 




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Monday, July 9 - 8:28pmSanction this postReply
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The plot thickens...



Post 2

Monday, July 9 - 8:39pmSanction this postReply
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Good grief...



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Monday, July 9 - 9:03pmSanction this postReply
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Does anyone see the parallel between this and Jame's Kilbourne's Drooling Beast article?

The thought quickens.




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Monday, July 9 - 9:52pmSanction this postReply
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I think the reason we come back to these Brad threads is that there are just so many aspects of his arguments on which we can disagree with him! Here's another: He seems to think that "race mixing" will produce a homogeneously plain population. Counterexample? Beyonce, anyone?



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Tuesday, July 10 - 12:00amSanction this postReply
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Actually, I put Brad on moderation.  I dislike it when people start threads about other members.  It's petty and destructive.  I would probably ban him outright except so many people seem to find it worth their while to argue with him.




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Tuesday, July 10 - 12:37amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

If you think he should be banned, I'm certainly happy with that. I'd be happy to see him gone.

But if anyone else still finds any value in his posts, or in arguing with them, or doesn't agree that he is a racist, then I'm not going to object to his staying.
--------------------

It is very unpleasant to see one's name featured in a negative thread title. Joe took my name off the thread title, for which I'm grateful.
--------------------

If there is anyone who is curious about the claims Trun makes about my views in this thread... Well, he's got them wrong. I made a joke about 'the FUN of "mixing" until it is no longer sensible to refer to races'. It was a use of humor to poke fun at Trun's objections to race mixing. It was NOT a crusade or serious prescription on my part. I don't care who "mixes" with whom! Unlike Trun I haven't the tiniest interest in crusading for or against this or that race or against mixed-race offspring - I'm only interested in crusading against racists.
----------------

When Trun says things like, "Because Wolfer wants Third World Muslims to help mix away distinct European (and all other) phenotypes, he would not allow Western countries to defend their borders from Muslim invasion, rape, murder, totalitarianism, and gradual colonization..." Trun is just telling a lie. I have argued on RoR on many occassions (and to annoyance of those who support open borders), that we need secure borders and that the government has a right to regulate entry into the country (but not on racial grounds).
-----------------

Trun creates a strawman with his argument that I am motivated by "egalitarian" motives. The problem is that there are already two definitions of egalitarian that are bandied about. There is the socialist/communist use of egalitarian to refer to outcomes. They want everyone to have the same economic status and use redistributive policies to achieve that kind of egalitarianism. The other use is in reference to rights. Here it is sometimes used as a simple assertion that we should all be equal under the law, and that we all start with equal individual rights - historically, that should be "equality" not "egalitarianism."

Other times egalitarianism is used to refer to positive rights - saying we all have a right to things like health care, but that is just a justification for redistribution - and another form of equal outcomes.

Trun's egalitarianism is totally different, and he uses it as an attack on those who don't agree with his racist positions. He states that we are not all the same genetically and that some of the genetic differences fall along racial lines. I agree with that - it is simple physical anthropology, physiology and human genetics. We are talking about a group of fairly minor differences - things like skin color. I am NOT an "egalitarian" in that abuse of this term.

But Trun goes on to say that intelligence, character, ideas, beliefs, criminal behavior, and many other psychological and mental states (including things that arise from the from individual choices, sub-cultural values) are also genetic.

Let me be very clear. Trun beliefs require innate ideas, in genetically transmitted cultural and moral values. He believes that Blacks are genetically inferior in ways that guarantee that they will be more likely to commit crimes, and have more sex... among other things - because that is in their genes, according to Trun.

Because I don't agree with that kind of racist statement, Trun brands me an "egalitarian." Bizarre, isn't it!
--------------------

All I can say at this point is that I'm really glad he was confined to Dissent, and glad that he is now moderated. He uses his posts to advertise his YouTube videos and the other internet expositions of this form of racism. He is using RoR as a billboard, but fortunately, its limited to the Dissent area.
---------------------

Joe, thank you for that prompt response.



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Tuesday, July 10 - 4:38amSanction this postReply
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I just shake my head when I see otherwise intelligent people act this way. I have to remind myself that we are not that far removed genetically from chimpanzees and other primates. I have not seen this much waste of intellectual capacity since Mensa. I am fine with banning Brad as well but that is Joe's call.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 7/10, 4:41am)




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Tuesday, July 10 - 7:15amSanction this postReply
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Felt like the site was turning into the Brad Trun racist show featuring RoR, so I welcome the moderation.
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 7/10, 11:05am)




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Tuesday, July 10 - 10:42amSanction this postReply
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If you can't deal effectively with someone's arguments, you can always levy a personal attack against him. Another poster started a thread attacking me with my name on it. It didn't bother me. These kinds of threads say more about the originator than about the person targeted. Boy, Steve must really be getting under Brad's skin! Hey, Brad, could you start one about me too? I'm jealous! Why should Steve get all the attention?!

Actually, I don't mind arguing with Mr. Trun, as it gives me an opportunity to identify the fallacies in his position. It's rare to find a racist (or racialist) who is so well informed. I'm also happy when the Jehovah Witnesses come by the house to propagandize me! ;-)



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Tuesday, July 10 - 1:19pmSanction this postReply
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At first, they came for the psychologists. But I wasn't a psychologist, so I did not stand up against them. Then, they came for the retired biochemists ...

:-)

Ed




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Tuesday, July 10 - 1:32pmSanction this postReply
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Reminds me of what I went through in my senior year of high school, had an entire fan club of this type of person.



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Post 12

Tuesday, July 10 - 6:02pmSanction this postReply
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I knew it was only a matter of time.  Thank you, Joe.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 7/10, 6:05pm)




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Tuesday, July 10 - 9:14pmSanction this postReply
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LOL! Good one, Teresa!



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Post 14

Wednesday, July 11 - 4:06pmSanction this postReply
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I think that race is a nonsense idea, so racism is sort of double nonsense. Claiming that 2 and 4 are races and so 3 is a half-breed is no more reasonable than claiming that 3 and 5 are races and 4 is a half-breed. Show me two individuals of different 'races' and I will show you an individual right in between them.

There are many continuums of physical attributes that make up a human, tall-short, curly-straight, blue-brown, wide-narrow, etc., and a lot of correspondence between climate and body-style, but it is still arbitrary nonsense to draw a line of demarcation in a continuum and pretend that it is not arbitrary. My sister was blond, blue-eyed and turned a beautiful brown in the summer. I had brown hair and eyes and turned red like a lobster. We recently watched a film called "Skin" about a brown girl born to white parents in South Africa and all their legal problems trying to get her properly classified.

Race is a fiction used to pick fights. Also, if you want to keep slaves, it's handy to make sure they look a lot different than you. Enslaving red-heads might work, but there probably aren't enough of them.

I don't think anyone should be banned for nonsense. Some of the most treasured ideas down through the ages have been nonsense on steroids. Refuting them is good excercise and should be enjoyed.
(Edited by JOHN HOWARD on 7/11, 4:11pm)




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Wednesday, July 11 - 6:36pmSanction this postReply
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John Howard, where have you been my erstwhile compadre! Good to see you back on the list. You say,
My sister was blond, blue-eyed and turned a beautiful brown in the summer.
Really! And you never introduced us? ;-)
it is still arbitrary nonsense to draw a line of demarcation in a continuum and pretend that it is not arbitrary.
Yes, and you're no doubt familiar with the "one-drop" rule. One drop of black lineage, and you're black! Notice they don't say, "one drop of white lineage, and you're white." Remember, Plessy versus Ferguson? Homer Plessy, who was an octoroon (one-eighth black), boarded one of Louisiana's segregated street-cars (segregated by law against the wishes of the company) and refused to sit in the colored section. He was arrested because he was still considered black, even though he was seven-eighths white). Even today, we are still operating under the one-drop rule.




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Thursday, July 12 - 8:40amSanction this postReply
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Hi Bill,

My sister was (and is) a psychobabbling communist, now living in a rent-controlled apartment in New York and employed as a city social-worker who teaches modern dance to the homeless. I can get you her phone number, if you wish. She makes a lot of money.



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Thursday, July 12 - 9:31amSanction this postReply
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ROFL!! Good one John Howard. Now I'd like to see the intro of Bill to your sister... : )



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Post 18

Thursday, July 12 - 12:08pmSanction this postReply
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John,

That would make a good sit-com.



Post 19

Friday, July 13 - 4:57pmSanction this postReply
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"How I Met Your Sister"



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