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Post 20

Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 8:18pmSanction this postReply
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Byron:

"and maybe Sophie Marceau as she looked in "Braveheart""

Uh, no. As in "no maybe." I am STILL deeply in love with her since that movie...

Post 21

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 10:55amSanction this postReply
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Jeanine wrote: "Msr. Garcia,"

Pigs can fly and Hell just froze over.
'Twas my impression that Hell's Ninth Pit in deepest Caina was always frozen over, and other circles were quite chill.  But tell me- may I ask why the title should be so unthinkable?

amused,
                        u
miss Shiris   )(*)(


Post 22

Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 5:10amSanction this postReply
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This is interesting.  I have requested the full text.  The counter-argument of "walking and chewing gum" is not valid because that is the coordination of two physical tasks.  Rubbing your stomach and patting your head is the same kind of task. 
 
I have some experience with meditation (Tai Chi, etc.), and I certainly consider myself rational.  Therefore,  the topic has some attraction, and I do not reject it out of hand.

One aspect of this -- without the full text to consider -- is that what most people call "thinking" is not.  With some experience teaching children and adults, I have often wondered just what goes on in other peoples' heads -- as I am sure we all have. 


Post 23

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:39pmSanction this postReply
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Jeanine,

Why do I find the title unthinkable?  I thought I made it clear in prior posts but I'll spell it out for all to see: I HATE FRANCE!

Yes, Hell is cold.  It is called Bridgeport, California.

Au re voir!



Post 24

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Garcia-

Very well; I consider your opinion of the French nation to be your own affair.  Let me please extend you the courtesy of Anglophone titles if you so prefer.  Hospitality is, after all, a Pagan virtue.

Though I confess I'm unfamiliar with Bridgeport; for me Hell will always be synonymous with the American state of Virginia.

regards,                          v
                                       *
Jeanine Shiris Ring     )O(
stand forth!


Post 25

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:42pmSanction this postReply
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Merci beacoup, mademoiselle  . . . or however you spell "Thank you very much, Miss" in Frog.

Post 26

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 5:23pmSanction this postReply
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Jeanine,

Speaking of Pagans, have you read "The Da Vinci Code"?


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Post 27

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 9:00amSanction this postReply
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Is this topic about "A Review of David Stewart's "John Galt Recants" or France, or books, or.. just some place to put stuff?

I'd like to comment on the original post.

Before discovering Objectivism I was into Zen meditation. So I can say a little about this subject.

When you are meditating you are intentionally putting the process of integrating new knowledge and retrieving old knowledge on hold. It is designed to switch your mind to a mode that can perceive existence without prejudice. In this state I can say you see things as they are. A is A without connecting it with your idea of what A is.

In this state you can look at things fresh. Maybe even see something you didn't notice before because you normally will go to automatic knowledge about what A is and move on to other things that seem more important at the time.

Zen is a tool. Like study habits you pick up in school for memorization. I realized this fact and also that you can not function using this tool alone. When combined with Buddhist philosophy it is used to kill logic altogether and implant Altruism. Which is a scary thought. The Zen riddles, if you look at them closely are only poorly designed (or well designed if that is your purpose) to not be solvable. For example:

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

The answer is: That is impossible. Clapping is defined as requiring two hands. Because a question is posed does not mean that it can happen in reality.

Or:

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

The answer of course is: Are there animals to hear it? Do you mean does it create sound waves? The question must be redefined. These are designed to seize the engine of your mind. So Buddhism is dangerous and immoral but Zen meditation can still be a useful tool.

The miscommunication of consciousness probably comes down to what we define the word to mean. I would say the first stage is perception of things through the use of our senses (Some would call this consciousness). From that information we either used stored information if we know what this object is and think nothing more on it or it is something new that must be defined and integrated (others would call this consciousness).

If you use Zen meditation I think you could improve your ability to perceive on the first level and if you properly integrate objects on the second level through rational thought (Objectivism) you can improve that. So there are uses for both.

As for the rest of the article I don't agree with some of the bullet points:

"Dualities — Good and evil do not exist; only existence exists."

This is also a poorly designed statement. Good and Evil exist in relation to the entities that exist in existence.

"Individual responsibility — it is without limit."

Individual responsibility is limited by the word individual. An individual or entity is responsible only for itself and its nature.

"Capitalism — he sees the standard of big business increasingly becoming Utilitarianism, but this is in the context of our mixed economy."

First off I hate it when people use the word big in front of corporation or business. The value assessment that is trying to be inferred is that big=bad. Because a business is large does not mean bad.

True capitalism is a free-market economy. As soon as you stop being a free-market economy you may become Utilitarian. That means your requirements to being a capitalist system have changed and you are no longer that by definition.

Still I am open to reading the full article and making my own decision on its value (maybe even reading the book if something is intriguing in the review). When you disregard something right out without looking it over it is just avoiding the necessity of thinking and risking the possibly of having conflicts with your understanding of reality.

Regards,

Jeremy Nelson

Post 28

Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 3:17pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you Sam, for puting into words a difficulty I've been having with Objectivism.  I'm not well-versed in it by any means.  I've read Ms. Rand's book The Virtue of Selfishness only until I lost patience with what I saw as a very narrow view of what was real and how it was experienced.  As I see it, rationality is by no means the only method of encountering reality.  Furthermore, as Mr. Stewart suggests, the fundamental moment of experience is not rational at all, rationality merely comments on it.  Some of the more devoted Objectivists here have had trouble seeing the sense of Mr. Stewart's speech.  I hope my eccentric perspective can shed some light on the subject.

I have an experience I'd like to relate to you all.  I'm what you might call a psychic reader.  I get information about people for which I have no rational explanation, but plenty of confirmation over the years.  I'm not clear on the mechanism (I have some excellent theories!), but I am sure that it works.  In addition to being psychic I have dedicated much of my life to rational investigation. 

One example from my experience seems particularly apt in it's simplicity and straightforwardness.  A young woman came into the shop where I was doing readings.  I'd certainly never seen her before.  She was a bit solemn in her demeanor, but nothing too remarkable on the face of things and so we sat down to do the reading.  I don't ask my subjects for any information up front, and she didn't give me any.  I use tarot cards as a jumping off point, I find their symbols tend to clear my mind of prejudices and agendas, opening me to what I call "the information."  As I lay down the second card, I saw the abortion she had had recently.  There was nothing rational in the perception, yet there it was.

Now, in these situations I have many, many thoughts and images that cross my mind.  I've come to speak of the psychic information as coming into my awareness "at a certain angle" which I can usually perceive.  I think, "Now, that wasn't my thought, was it?" 

When I told this woman that I saw her abortion she immediately began to cry.  I could see the relief in her face just from hearing me speak of it.  The rest of the reading concerned the need to forgive herself and other matters which I don't recall (another characteristic of "the information" is that it tends to fade from my memory very soon after a reading).  The rational observer in me latched onto the details of the abortion and the woman's tears as some kind of evidence that I wasn't crazy.  No matter how many years I've been at this, my mind's first reaction to this kind of confirmation is the same, "Have I lost my mind?"

In a Zen sense, I think the answer would be a resounding, "Yes!"  I think one way of thinking about Mr. Stewart's concept is that in bare awareness there is no "I."  The thought, "I am aware" is at one remove from the awareness itself.  There's a joke that comes to mind, "If you think you've experienced ego death, you haven't."  Anyway, I could go on, but it would be pointless if I've lost you all already.  Any thoughts?


Post 29

Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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Kevin, I say this in a friendly way... as an artist with an interest in both Ayn Rand and Carl Jung, with an interest in such things as tarot and synchronicity, (I've had a lot of synchronicity in my life), I would probably be the most inclined to listen to what you have to say. Having said that, I think that what you wrote is not going to convince anyone here, myself included. What you write about is an assertion that is not objectively verifiable. While I do not doubt the existence of non-rational or non-verbal means of communication, it's just going to be difficult for you to talk about psychic abilities of the John Edwards variety here.


(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 7/28, 8:03pm)


Post 30

Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 8:25pmSanction this postReply
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The quotes from Stewart that you give us read like Galt's speech machine-translated into German and then back into English.  I can see why the guy never made a name for himself.

(As some but not all Randroids know, Aristotle did not formulate the law of identity.  It came along in the middle ages.  The nearest he comes to it is a passing remark in Metaphysics Zeta to the effect that to ask whether something is itself or not is nonsensical.)

Peter


Post 31

Friday, July 29, 2005 - 7:06amSanction this postReply
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Kevin:

I completely agree with Joe Maurone. I can't find anything in David Stewart's thesis that is remotely similar to your outlook and it is certainly at odds with any Objectivist thought.

Sam


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