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Post 0

Monday, June 7, 2004 - 9:22pmSanction this postReply
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What is neo-tech?  What is Starship Aurora?  What is the illuminati?  I've visited various sites attempting to promote/explain these peculiar movements that seem to relate tangentially to Objectivism, and I don't understand any of them.


Post 1

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 - 2:45amSanction this postReply
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Logan,

Neo-Tech is some sort of breakaway cult from Objectivism. SOLOist Luke Setzer has a brilliant essay on them here, which he posted to the Yahoo group a while back.

Starship Aurora from what I can gather is about creating a Objectivist society in space once space travel technology has developed far enough. Their director, Monart Pon, was involved with SOLO for a time, and has an article about Starship here.

No idea who the Illuminati are.

MH


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Post 2

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 - 3:05pmSanction this postReply
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The illuminati are a secret society that is pretty much the basis of half of modern day conspiracy theory.

Illuminati meaning the enlightened ones (I suck at Latin it maybe the wrong tense)

Though the term illuminati has become a catch all phrase used by conspiracy nut balls to describe any secret or semi-secret looking society, there was a group who directly called themselves the illuminati in 18th century founded by a fellow named Weishaupt who was a former Jesuit. They were a secret society that had relation with the Masonic Order. They took part in the standard occult based rituals during their initiations and were feared for their influence in Europe and later the Masons were feared for similar influence. Conspiracy theorists presume that the Illuminati themselves became high ranking Masons in order to surround themselves with a cover group.

Do to the alternative religions hippie-occult revival during the 1960’s an interest in this organization also arose due to its relation to "the unknown" about that same time person a number of groups showed up that referred to themselves as the Illuminati. Also thanks to the Conspiracy nuts like Bob Dobb from the church of the sub-genius almost every group that has anything to do with any conspiracy also becomes, in some obscure fashion, associated with the word Illuminati simply because it has become the catch all term.

The Illuminati symbolism can be found in almost everything if you look for it from the back of your dollar bill to the AOL symbol depending on how depraved and paranoid your imagination happens to be.

From my own grasp of current conspiracy theory as presented and researched by extremist journalists and composed by shut-in news junkies is as follows: The illuminati is a satanic movement hell bent on controlling the world which may or may not be in league with aliens from another planet/ dimension. None of that can be confirmed but, from these nuts, the illuminati are deep within the Free Trade / Neo-liberal movement in the world. The arms of the illuminati are the founding organizations of the WTO. That is The Builderberg Society, tri-lateral commission and other rich elitist clubs. So in short free trade is the devil in league with aliens and anyone who agrees with it is part of the illuminati conspiracy.

What does this have to do with Objectivism?

In my experience conspiracy nuts fall into two categories each as illogical as the next; extreme leftist and extreme rightist Christian. Both sides view Objectivism as a branch of the illuminati conspiracy for one reason or another. The leftists think we are just mindless drones of Ayn Rand’s army of Capitalist zombies here to steal their freedom as the prophet Marx predicted. The rightists think that Ayn Rand’s ethics of egotism is the sign of satanic influence because of its anti-religion, pro-self stance, which was later partially adopted by Anton LeVay of the Satanic Church. It gets more in depth depending on which conspiracy rags you read but that’s the basics.

What does it all come down to?

Inconsistent stringing of poorly interpreted and misunderstood bits of information that is floating in an illogical belief in occult mysticism, god, or aliens.

Regards,
Eric J. Tower


Post 3

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 1:31amSanction this postReply
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Something Eric said, jogged my recent memory, concerning the mystery of "Jack the Ripper".

Ever since the late Victorian Era, theories as to who the Ripper really was, have abounded.  Many of us have heard the theory that it was Queen Victoria's personal physician, or her nephew (I believe), named Albert.

Not too long ago, the famed comic book writer Alan Moore wrote a comic book series about the Ripper murders which he titled From Hell, which was adapted into a horror movie starring Johnny Depp.

In the series and the movie, Moore "reveals" that the Ripper is not just the Queen's physician, but that the physician is a Freemason.  In the movie, the Ripper is revealed to be an errant Freemason which the organization must ultimately deal with, in-house.

My point is, Moore subscribed to Freemason conspiracy theories in crafting his story.

However, a few years ago, the forensic scientist and author Patricia Cornwell wrote a nonfiction book that she titled Portrait of a Killer, based on her own personally-financed, first-time-ever forensic science investigation of the 100-plus year-old remaining Ripper evidence, and concluded, far more objectively than anyone else ever has, that the Ripper was surprisingly not the Queen's personal physician or her nephew? Albert.  She concludes that the Ripper was somebody far more likely to have done the crimes, and gotten away with them.

I won't reveal who she concludes was the Ripper; you'll have to get it from someone other than me, or, better yet, read the book.  Man, it's great.

What is interesting about all of this, is that in the DVD version of Alan Moore's From Hell, the film commentary -- possibly his own personal commentary -- rejects her conclusions based on actual scientific and forensic analysis, in favor of his strictly hypothetical and fanciful fictional portrayals.

This, to me, reveals a lot about the conspiracist mindset, and its regard for true attempts at real objectivity.

(Edited by Orion Reasoner on 6/09, 1:33am)


Post 4

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 1:37amSanction this postReply
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There are all sorts of theories about Jack the Ripper (including that he was from a small Welsh villiage). Cornwell's book sounds fascinating. 

Post 5

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 6:18amSanction this postReply
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Orion Said: "This, to me, reveals a lot about the conspiracist mindset, and its regard for true attempts at real objectivity."

Indeed, the rule is simple really, if objective evidence conflicts with your conspiracy theory then disregard it because its a plot by the illuminati to toss you off their trail.

(as if a multinational conspiratorial organization with unlimited resoures wouldn't just errase the conspiracy theorist if they really existed.)

Wink Wink,

Eric.


Post 6

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 8:48amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the information.  It seems to me that there were some people calling themselves part of the illuminati who spammed the SOLO list some time ago.  They seemed to be some conspiratorially inclined wacky libertarian sect who were trying to convert Objectivists by pitching "The Illuminati Manifesto" and their web site.  I recall visiting the site and finding its bizarre, incoherent, floating ramblings incomprehensible.

-Logan


Post 7

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 11:17amSanction this postReply
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and then there was "supreme chairman", back in the days when I didnt actually post on this forum. he was hillarious.

Post 8

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 9:12pmSanction this postReply
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Logan is right.  There is a group calling themselves "Illuminati".  They're goal is to create a single world government run by scientists, if I remember right.  They have links and stuff, making it seem like a cult, but I'm not sure there's more than one guy involved.  He certainly keeps himself busy.  Here's a link to info on the guy.

http://nodeity.com/tulbure.html

I've seen the neo-tech sites.  They took a bunch of Objectivist ideas, twisted them and used a new invented jargon to help obfuscate them, and presented it as an improvement.  I've had problems telling them apart from the Illuminati in the past.  They might be the same people, or related.  I thought I remembered them wanting to have a government of scientists too.  Strange stuff.

Starship Aurora seems to be a fantasy world of star trek objectivists.  They talk about how great it'll be to someday be in space, and they say things like "beam me up".  There is an article on SOLO from Monart Pon, the leader.  He broke with SOLO because some people didn't think space exploration was the highest possible value.


Post 9

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - 9:42pmSanction this postReply
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I hate Star Trek... at least the stuff in the last 15 years or so... 

I have claustrophobia like mad... being out in space in some space ship under artificial lighting would make me wig out.

I still like the original 1960's Roddenberry series... its main thrust was to serve as disguised philosophy and morality on forbidden topics, as all science fiction really seems to me to be... just like Rod Serling's Twilight Zone.
 
Give me a show like that, set not in outer space in some gloomy, dark space ship with low ceilings, but on Earth, under open skies.

Yes, that's it.  Make a show about some kind of Utopian colony on Earth, addressing philosophical and moral issues... with lots of panoramic skyscapes, rolling clouds, sunshine, and a cool breeze blowing.  I would watch that show endlessly. 


Post 10

Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 6:05amSanction this postReply
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Logan,

Neo-Tech claims to be a kind of self-help literature. The Neo-Tech literature uses
concepts from Objectivism, Transhumanism, Scientology (!) and from some controversial theories about psychology and physics. The Neo-Tech guys say, that almost everybody thinks mystically and if you remove all mysticism from your mind, you could become mega-successful. They call the mystic-free way of thinking Neo-Think. Neo-Think has nothing to do with studying Objectivism or carefully enhancing your skills and virtues. Neo-Tech just says, that you should read enough of the Neo-Tech literature, which is very expensive, and then you are free from mysticism and can earn billions of dollars and have every girl you want. If enough people will practice Neo-Thinking, then all the statist governments will wither away and we will have laissez-faire capitalism. This will lead to a giant technological leap and ten (!) years after this we will become immortal via cloning technology.  

This sounds like a kind of satire, but all the things I mentioned above are explicitly stated in the Neo-Tech documents, which are available online. I haven't mentioned the worst things yet:

The Neo-Tech guys say, that there are space aliens, called Zons, who have advanced technology and they control the whole universe in some way. They do not contact humanity, because we life in a pre-Neo-Tech culture. If a morally good person dies, they save his brain to a cosmic supercomputer. One day when mankind will reach the Neo-Tech stage, the Zons will contact mankind and they will bring us our dead back. The Neo-Tech people make some semi-rational arguments to show, that this thesis is the logical endpoint of Objectivism (!!!). 

There was once a web-site at oneworldorder.org, which claimed to be the web-site of the Illuminati. They claim that there is really a big, international Illuminati conspiracy and that the web-site has the aim to inform everyone about the goals of the Illuminati order. The web-site claims that the Illuminati are telepathic (!) and that their telepathic abilities have something to do with quantum physics.

Since no honest person can believe to be a member of the Illuminati order and be telepathic, I see three possibilities:           
1. The site is a joke.
2. The guy, who created the site is insane.
3. The whole thing is a fraud to sell stupid people expensive Illuminati literature or
    something like this.

To make my point clear: I don't share any of the opinions made by Neo-Tech and the Illuminati. Both cults have nothing to do with Objectivism, because they don't even accept the Primacy of Existence, even if they don't explicitly say it. I just know about this stuff, because I had to much time to use the internet, when I was younger.
And I need something to laugh about, too.

Frank R.   


Post 11

Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 3:33pmSanction this postReply
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Frank R., the founder of Neo-Tech is Frank R. Wallace--is this a coincidence? Just curious.

Post 12

Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 10:25pmSanction this postReply
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My user name has nothing to do with Neo-Tech. My last name and my second given name starts with an R. So my name is Frank R.  Reide...  (I'm from Germany.) instead of Frank R. Wallace. Since I don't use my second given name often, the "R." in my user name is referring to my last name.   

Frank R.

(Edited by Frank R. on 6/23, 1:47pm)

(Edited by Frank R. on 10/15, 11:12pm)

(Edited by Frank R. on 11/06, 9:07am)


Post 13

Friday, June 11, 2004 - 6:38amSanction this postReply
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Sure it does frank.... tell the truth now.... we all know your part of the satanic alien conspiracy that the illuminati have set up to stratigicly influence the direction this sites discussion goes in. 

:-)


E.


Post 14

Friday, June 11, 2004 - 12:08pmSanction this postReply
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O.K. Eric, finally you discovered the truth. But it's to late now. On Sunday there are the elections for the European parliament. The political party founded by me and the "supreme chairman" will win the elections. How do we know that we will win? Because our political program uses the best and most progressive ideas of communism, satanism, Islam, postmodernism, feminism, fascism, vegetarianism, anarchism, hip-hop, buddhism, sadomasochism and evilism integrated via Neo-Think. After the elections we will unleash our secret super weapons and will turn the United States into a sea of flames. Har Har Har Har Har.... ;-)
  


Post 15

Friday, June 11, 2004 - 3:11pmSanction this postReply
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In the first Ayn Rand versus Phil Donohue interview, a woman in the audience asks Rand (in a really funny nasely voice) about the Illuminati.  The dialogue went something like this:

Woman:  "Isnt it true that Atlas Shrugged is a blue print for the world takeover by the Illuminati?"

Rand:  "Who?  I've never heard of this."

Woman:  "You know, the Illuminati.  You know, the Rockerfellers and the Vanderbuilts, IBM and ATT?"

Rand:  " I dont know what you are talking about.  Atlas Shrugged is a blue print for how to live and be free."

So apparently, Rand is blamed for creating the Illuminati and providing them a blue print for world takeover.

Hahahaha!


Post 16

Friday, June 11, 2004 - 9:20pmSanction this postReply
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Marnee (or anyone viewing this),

Say, you wouldn't happen to know where or how I might obtain a copy of the televised programs that have featured Ayn Rand, L. Peikoff, and D. Kelley would you?

A comprehensive video library of televised public appearances featuring these 3 intellectual juggernauts would be something I sure would value!

Ed

Post 17

Monday, June 14, 2004 - 9:28pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

I think you can buy the Donahue interview by calling up The Objectivist Center... That's where I bought my tape of Mike Wallace interviewing her in 1959.


Post 18

Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 10:58amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Orion!

Ed

Post 19

Friday, April 8, 2005 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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Belated update on this Illuminati thread.

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