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Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:41pmSanction this postReply
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For my American cousins, et al:

Amazon link

Und fur Kiwi volk:

Marbecks




Post 1

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:38amSanction this postReply
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Yes - Santa here is always in candy striped undershirts sipping pina coladas under a palm tree...

Post 2

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 9:13amSanction this postReply
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A girlfriend gave me this Winston CD about three years ago -- I like the Pachelbel Kanon particularly! It sits in my pile of CDs in my office, awaiting the appropriate season so I can put it on as lovely, beautiful, relaxing, peaceful and joyous background music to calm me down as I write inflammatory rants about the irrationality in our society and repression in our political regime. Hmmm, I'll probably need to play it quite a few times.

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Post 3

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:15pmSanction this postReply
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It's OK, Ed- we won't tell anyone important that you have the father of New Age music in your collection. But, with the exception of Live from the Acropolis, ditch the Yanni stuff or we're dropping a dime on your Objectivist ass.

rde
Crushing Boomeritis Buddhists since 1978


Post 4

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:43pmSanction this postReply
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Rich -- Most of my listening is Wagner, Puccini, Mahler, Beethoven and Bach -- no Yanni! Most of my Christmas stuff is Pavarotti and Elizabeth Schwarzkopf. If I promise to purchase Mario Lanza doing Yuletide Tunes, will I be safe?

Post 5

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
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Maybe if it's channeled thru Linz...[ducks]

Post 6

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:59amSanction this postReply
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George Winston is from Montana, where I live. His music evokes the eastern plains in that it is wandering, spacial and slow in development, like the changing of the seasons. Having said that, please don't mistake this man as a serious artist with something serious to say. It's evocative, not highly artistic.

Post 7

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
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Jamie, perhaps you'd like to explain what you mean by "a serious artist with something serious to say" or "evocative, not highly artistic"?

Ross

Post 8

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 3:02pmSanction this postReply
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If I promise to purchase Mario Lanza doing Yuletide Tunes, will I be safe?
 
How could you not, since apparently he is the greatest singer that has ever existed in the galaxy? :)

rde
Tom Jones is old and he could still kick that guy's ass.




Post 9

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 3:03pmSanction this postReply
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George Winston is a typical piano "noodler" ... decent technique, a good sense of melody, and fairly adept improvisational chops. He's good at the ethereal, the whimsical, the spatial ... but NOT the kind of piano playing and composition that commands a more sophisticated musicianship. Many of his tunes are comprised of simple circle-of-fifth progressions; many of his improvisational rides are done over one harmonic structure. But like I said, he's good at what he does. But even he would tell you that his music is meant to be digested emotionally, not academically.

Post 10

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 3:04pmSanction this postReply
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The difference between being an artist and a fine artist, or a writer and an author...

Post 11

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 3:21pmSanction this postReply
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Robert: Exactly.
By the way, I own "December," along with "Autumn," "Winter into Spring" and "Ballads and Blues," all by Winston. I hope I didn't come across as saying I don't like his music. I spent a lot of my high-school days transcribing his music by ear.

Post 12

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 6:36pmSanction this postReply
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"But even he would tell you that his music is meant to be digested emotionally, not academically. "

Quite, Jamie. Emotionally digestible and evocative of my sense of life is how I like my music.

And God save me from boring academic analysis of it.

Ross

Post 13

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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Ross:
"But even he would tell you that his music is meant to be digested emotionally, not academically. "

Quite, Jamie. Emotionally digestible and evocative of my sense of life is how I like my music.

And God save me from boring academic analysis of it."

Ross, this reminds me of an argument I had against a writer who claimed that Pink Floyd did not meet the criteria of Progressive Rock because the musicians were not virtuosos. (I'd argue that they were virtuoso's of the studio, but that's another story). Anyway, I recall the the keyboardist, Rick Wright, after the Floyd's experimental phase, had simplified his sound after several albums of piano trickery. Basically, he stopped being "pretentious" by trying to overdo it and streamlined his compositions to be more efficient and to the point. Wright was the only trained musician in the group, and does possess decent, if not virtuoso, chops. He had a few pieces of complexity and experimentation, but the pieces that stand out are the later simplified structures like "Us and Them," "Great Gig in the Sky," etc. They are less abstract and more tuneful, not showy or tricky but have a simple beauty and grace. The same could be said of David Gilmour, not a fast player, but beautiful phrasing, deeply moving in my ears. 3 of his notes are worth 1000 of Eddie Van Halen's.
I find it funny sometimes that technology and labor tend to develop into smaller, efficient forms, but in music, the opposite seems to be true. "Brevity is the soul of wit" is often quoted around here, but in the arts, the criteria of greatness seems to be needless complexity and punishing performances that leave the musician exhausted. (Why do people applaud a singer's high C? Not because it's more beautiful, but because it's physically more difficult and demanding.) Esthetics becomes replaced by athleticism, or uber-intellectualism. But musicians are not athletes or scientists, but estheticians. I'm not against complexity or high performance, mind you, but I'm at a loss to understand the devaluation of simpler pieces in favor of more complex or physical ones, especially when both have the power to move the soul. The real criteria should be not just the form but also the purpose of the piece, and not complexity for complexity's sake. Form and function.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/16, 9:13pm)

(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/16, 9:15pm)


Post 14

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:15pmSanction this postReply
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What Joe said.

Post 15

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:13amSanction this postReply
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Ross wrote "And God save me from boring academic analysis of it."

Yes, because academic analysis of Winston would be boring in and of itself. It would read something like:
C (four bars, noodle)
F/E (two bars, noodle)
F (four bars, noodle)
D/F# (two bars, noodle)
Gm (two bars, noodle)
etc., etc., etc. ....

It's not the academic structure that makes Winston's music good in my book; it's what he does within the confines of his simple structures.
But when I'm in the mood for serious, bad-fucking-ass piano playing, give me Chick Corea or give me death.

Post 16

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:43amSanction this postReply
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Ross wrote "And God save me from boring academic analysis of it."

Jamie wrote: "Yes, because academic analysis of Winston would be boring in and of itself. "

If you haven't read it yet, see Roger Bissell's article on today's SOLO entitled "What's Wrong With Bebop?" Roger makes a few points that bear on this discussion and may offer a bridge to understanding the issue:

On the technicality of jazz: "...what had begun as a device to exclude the square musicians... was sustained in more public performances to exclude the square lay listener, too, the trick being to make a secret of the musical enterprise...[The secret, of course, was] the more or less familiar tune which, with its chord changes, would be the musicians' point of departure, but which would be neither announced nor played," unlike in traditional Dixieland and swing jazz.

Roger makes a crucial distinction here, one that I point to in the development of Pink Floyd's Rick Wright : "Now, this might, in a sense, be "exalting the mind" as opposed to the feelings—a standard Objectivist theme—but in my rationally humble opinion, it falls flat on its face, intentions notwithstanding. All the ingenuity in the world is artistically irrelevant, if your audience cannot reasonably be expected to perceive and understand your little hidden, creative gems."

As a result, "...since for many in the audience, possibly the majority, executive brilliance had always been the principal attraction...once the initially compensatory virtuosity began to pall, many lost interest in jazz."

"In this connection, read Leonard B. Meyer’s Music, the Arts and Ideas in which he discusses avant-garde music and points out that a good deal of it exceeds the cognitive ability ("channel capacity") of even the educated listener. Granted, no one says that an artist must guarantee that his viewer will be able to grasp it, but if the artist raises the bar too high, he will guarantee that the viewer will be unable to grasp it. "

But this does not mean that one has to dumb down the music, no need for a simple/complex dichotomy. The standard: What the human mind can reasonably integrate, something that is flexible and subject to growth.
And, of course...the need for melody: "How could bebop have been saved? What was missing? According to Pleasants—and I agree—the missing ingredient was memorable melody."



Post 17

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:15pmSanction this postReply
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Generally, complexity is an afterthought in most music. It's something you observe after the music is done. Not to say you can't write complex on purpose, but, well...you won't be... ;)


Post 18

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:54pmSanction this postReply
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Excuses, excuses...

Post 19

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 1:10pmSanction this postReply
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I don't think so. I think an overengineering mindset in music can make for some clunky stuff.

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