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Post 80

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 5:32amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Perhaps this information will be helpful in your "quest". ;-)  Before I decided to participate in this forum, I poked around in the Autonomist as a lurker.  (In fact, it was their bitching about Linz that prompted me to check out SOLO.)  I ran across Tingley promoting his website there, which I then visited.  It struck me as libertarian, though it could be conservative.  I hadn't given it much thought until you raised the issue.  It's mostly about fighting city hall.  But it has some good articles on Amway too.

Andy


Post 81

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 5:35amSanction this postReply
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Jason,

Apology accepted.  No harm, no foul.  After all, we're on the same team.

Andy


Post 82

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 6:36amSanction this postReply
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The tragic sense of life has been the 'way of life' throughout most all of history - even those positing the heroic do so within the confines of the tragic... I sometimes wonder what if instead of Aristotle's tragic piece being kept amongst us, it was the other one, the comedic piece - would it have made for a difference in perception of the possible?

Post 83

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 7:39amSanction this postReply
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Jason, Andy, Jody

Feel the love :-)


Post 84

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 7:40amSanction this postReply
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Andy,

========
Ed,
Perhaps this information will be helpful in your "quest". ;-)
========

Thanks Andy, I'll integrate that!

Ed
[mentally places new information in the appropriate folder -- begins thinking that he just might've jumped the gun on this one]

Post 85

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 7:57amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Glad to have been of service.  Now let's drag Ethan over here with the rest of the gang for a group hug. ;-)

Andy 


Post 86

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:22amSanction this postReply
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Christianity down the middle definitely has tragedy running through it, and that's the original reason I left it when I was 12. The white people mess it up regularly. If you're in New England and you hit a Unitarian church, and other such like that, you'll be OK, as far as white people churches go... :) You can only think dark thoughts for so long. It's not healthy. All it's about is wasting your time by being miserable. About the only people I see in the U.S. having regular fun with it are the black evangelical churches. Those people know how to be joyous. Why do you think those old black church ladies live so long? Lots of activiation in the old superior parietal lobes...

I've never attended a church service(and I've attended many, of different denominations) where they sat around trying to address all the things that were metaphysically possible. 
 
Well, I don't think anyone could do that in an hour and a half... We definitely get into the topic, though, and when we do we're looking at research.


Post 87

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:12amSanction this postReply
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==========
Ed,
Glad to have been of service.  Now let's drag Ethan over here with the rest of the gang for a group hug. ;-)
==========

Andy, you can be such a codependent, histrionic sycophant at times -- have I ever told you that before?

;-)

No matter, because I like you in spite of any untoward imperfections. I just can't get over this thought of visiting a basilica with you -- in full garb -- greeting and shaking hands with all the patrons at the front door: "Hello friend!" "Hello, Father Andy!" It's just so damn imaginable!

Brother Ed
[note to the sensitive and silent many: I am merely having fun with -- not making fun of -- common religious events, compared & contrasted with the "Andy Persona"]

Post 88

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:18amSanction this postReply
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He's not the only one - lol, back in the days when considering going into a seminary, was known as "reverend", as was one known never to swear or cuss, aside from my then religiosity...[indeed, the hightlight of my summer in the conservation camp was when, trying to clear logs from a swamped area, slipped in the mud - and mumbled 'shit'... it was as if the heavens opened up, as everybody stopped at what they were doing and looked at me - and roared and clapped with glee... I had become human like the rest of them]...


BTW - like the moniker... "Father Andy", you have thus been blessed... :-)

(Edited by robert malcom on 10/27, 9:20am)


Post 89

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:48amSanction this postReply
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Ed & Robert,

I suppose that's what I get for not keeping my trap shut about my callow youth. ;-)

Cheek turned,
Fr. Andy


Post 90

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:50amSanction this postReply
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Reverend Malcom?!

;-)

Great story though, reverend! You once were a mere 'human becoming.' But that is merely (humorous) history now -- and I know that for a fact. You're damn good at being human, rev', and that's damn obvious (please excuse my repeated profanity!).


Ed

p.s. [looking back on the recent activity here] A big apology to all those concerned (Michael especially) for my instigating and propagating what can only be described as a clear and present hijack of this thread. Hijacks can sometimes be taken as insults -- and I didn't mean for that.

If you have an extreme position on the matter, please let me know about it. I really AM a considerate guy (who'd likely respond benevolently to urgings) -- no, really, I am! You just gotta' give me a chance to show it. Heck, if I had no benevolent concern, I wouldn't be typing this -- now would I? Trust me when I say that I'll start playing nice in this sandbox, when I see someone torque'd off because they got sand in the eye.

Hijacks can be real fun, but there is a line. Please speak up if I've crossed or am crossing it.


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Post 91

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:52amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Group hug.

Michael


Post 92

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 11:21amSanction this postReply
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"Trust you"  Ed?  You say you have a "Tricky Dicky" in your closet? :-)

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Post 93

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:23pmSanction this postReply
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MSK --

What are you trying to do to us? This thread is turning into a cheek turning orgy. Come on. We're men, and we're rational egoists. We're supposed to be hurling insults and coming up with clever arguments. Instead because of you I became involved in a group hugging session :) Yuck

- Jason

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Post 94

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:36pmSanction this postReply
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Jason,

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...

Dayaamm!

Michael


Post 95

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:59pmSanction this postReply
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Jason-
Thanks, I have actually been thinking about writing an article along those lines.  The latest article I've been trying to hash out, unsuccessfully so far, is one about the war for the word 'atheist'.  Liberals have said that god is dead and therefore so is morality; conservatives have taken them at their word and often throw the term around as a pejorative, i.e, 'those godless atheists'.  Aside from being a ridiculous redundancy,  I'm tired of conservatives using it as a moral denouncement and I'm tired of the liberals using the atheism as a denouncement of morals.  I hope to write a decent article showing how both parties are wrong.

Andy-
I'm not sure about any suggestions as to a group hug, but it's a pleasure knowing that on the few occasions we disagree that I can count on well informed debate and sharp thinking that is challenging.  You'll never get me to concede that we can't debate the merits(or lack thereof) of christianity as a philosophy, but you have caused me to reexamine my lightly tossing the term evil around regarding christians in toto.


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Post 96

Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:43pmSanction this postReply
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Ed:
If you have an extreme position on the matter, please let me know about it.

Michael:
Ed,

Group hug.


Ya' see what I'm sayin' over here?! I mean it's like it's either balls-to-the-wall dogfighting, or cheek-to-cheek cuddly-wuddly. Sheesh! Can't we find a middle-ground around here? I for one hope this dichotomous behavior turns out to be thread-limited (ie. self-limiting). That said, c'mover here, ya big lug!

;-)

Ed
[thinking about membership to: SOLOextremists/balls/cheeks/don'tevenfrickenmesswithus.motherfreakin'com]




Post 97

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 4:54amSanction this postReply
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Jody,
I'm tired of conservatives using it as a moral denouncement and I'm tired of the liberals using the atheism as a denouncement of morals.  I hope to write a decent article showing how both parties are wrong.
That would be a worthwhile project.  I look forward to it.

Andy


Post 98

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:29amSanction this postReply
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Jody, I agree as well.

I don't know how old you are, but for a lot of us this is even worse because it is cycling back. When I was growing up, two words you rarely heard, and if so, whispered, were "atheist" and "homosexual". It's actually been relatively loose for the last couple of decades.

Of course, here in Ohio, we still have the medieval. If you live here, an employer can terminate you at any time for the sole reason that you are gay. And, a landlord can refuse to rent to you if you are gay.


Post 99

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 5:05pmSanction this postReply
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Michael: “This is enhanced by the fact that many such principles work well as tactics.”

I agree that Galt is turning the other cheek in the torture scene, but focusing on the principle as a tactic obscures the central issue. To turn the other cheek is to demonstrate that one is acting as a free moral agent, in that one’s response breaks the chains of cause and effect.

In the AS torture scene, Galt acts as a free agent. He is an engineer for whom the practical is the moral, and by telling the mechanic how to fix the machine, he is demonstrating his free moral choice.

Importantly, he is also granting the mechanic the same privilege. In this case, the outcome is beneficial, because the mechanic makes the right moral choice.

But this is not guaranteed. Moral freedom necessarily includes the freedom to make the wrong moral choice, and the downside of turning the cheek to one’s enemy is that he may decide that it’s a good thing to beat the shit out of you.

So turning the cheek isn’t a matter or rules or tactics. Jesus is using a highly counter-intuitive example to highlight a principle, that we should strive to act as free moral agents. But how we do that in any circumstance depends our own judgment.

Brendan.


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