RoR: Forum

One big circle-... huh Sarah?

Post 41

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:10pm

Robert,

If you are talking statistics, then provide the statistics.

And, personally speaking -

I prefer Madd Mothers to foolish, drunk worshiping, Libertarians any day!

gw

PS - Ahh! Jody! I googled "ignorant little punk" - and lo and behold, your name did not come up! I guess Andy Post-enima was wrong again!!! Big surprise, huh?!!!

Now, if you will excuse me, I intend to throw away my pickup truck keys and tackle a bottle of California Pinot Noir. Life is gooooood!!!!

Post 42

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:19pm

Life is gooooood!!!

It is indeed.
Speaking of wine, I just picked up a movie called Mondovino, and I think I'll go watch it.
Enjoy that glass.(or bottle, or magnum...or galt forbid, box.)

Post 43

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:21pm

PS - Ahh! Jody! I googled "ignorant little punk" - and lo and behold, your name did not come up! I guess Andy Post-enima was wrong again!!! Big surprise, huh?!!!

Actually I think it was that Jeff Riggenn...I don't know, some last name that reminds me of the pop-corn guy that called me that.

Post 44

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:35pm

Jody,

Think outside the "box!"

gw

Post 45

Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:46pm

Sarah,

I was going to add some comments on mental masturbation,

They would only think you were talking dirty to them!

(Whoa! Heh, heh, heh! Did you hear what Sarah said? Heh, heh, heh!!!!)

gw

Post 46

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 5:38am

Jody and Sarah, if you think that Gary's insane hyperbole and dumb jokes amount to an argument, then I feel sorry for you. I am arguing for what I see as a group that is much maligned, for no good reason other than the MADD-fools that use seriously flawed rhetoric to oppress another group, drinkers, mainly.

Tell me again why people who drive while intoxicated (oh, yes, I forgot...stop using drunk driving unless you're going to define it) are so dangerous...and what should be done about it and at what point. You can make your stupid fucking gay jokes about the Village People, gary, but maybe you want to actually argue something logical and not act like a jackass.

Post 47

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:08am

Steven,

It's just as much of an argument as what you've presented so far.

Why are intoxicated drivers dangerous? How about this: Alcohol Intoxication Effects on Simulated Driving: Exploring Alcohol-Dose Effects on Brain Activation Using Functional MRI, Neuropsychopharmacology (2004) 29, 2097-2017 (it's a cached site so I hope it works, that was the only way to get around the subscription)

Alcohol depresses neural activity, with immediate effects on multiple cognitive-motor processing domains (Mongrain and Standing, 1989). Even blood alcohol levels within legal limits produce significant, generalized impairments of multiple attentional abilities; larger doses produce major impairments (Neill et al, 1991).

Driving performance was rated on eight different measures: vehicle collisions, near vehicle collisions, number of lane deviations, duration of lane deviations, number of instances over maximum speed limit, total time over maximum speed limit, number of instances below minimum speed limit, and total time below minimum speed limit. Driving performance outcome measures thus indicated deficits in lateral and longitudinal vehicle control. Compared to sober baseline, at the lower BAC, performance slightly improved and participants reduced average speed. At the higher BAC, subjects drove more at higher speeds (p<0.008, corrected) and there was a trend toward increased collisions with other cars (p<0.15, corrected).

What should be done about it? I'm happy with what's being done where I am now.

At what point? Well, if things were my way, any amount alcohol consumption would mean no driving until it was out of your blood. Just to be *gasp* safe. While BAC does have some wiggle room in determining impairment due to alcohol tolerance levels, if one's driving prompted police action, it's a fair bet there's impairment involved. Like above, I'm happy with things the way they are.

Now, it's your turn. Would you or Robert or Ross care to back up these claims of oppression with something substantial? Show us some of this flawed rhetoric. Show us these statistics. Show us anything but a temper tantrum over a parking ticket.

Sarah

Edited because Gary made me a liar. :)

(Edited by Sarah House
on 9/25, 10:48am)

Post 48

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:27am

I am arguing for what I see as a group that is much maligned, for no good reason

You want to talk about insane and dumb? Start with that statement.

Tell me again why people who drive while intoxicated (oh, yes, I forgot...stop using drunk driving unless you're going to define it) are so dangerous...and what should be done about it and at what point.

Why so dangerous?

An average of 20958 dead people a year. Over 482000 dead people since 1982.

Source: http://www.madd.org/stats/0,1056,1298,00.html

Define drunk.

A blood alcohol content over 0.08. I would prefer a lower number though.

At what point?

Duh! When they get behind the wheel of a car!

stupid fucking gay jokes about the Village People,.

Sorry! I just saw you in your cowboy hat and the Village People seemed to fit you somehow! (If you want an insult war bubba, go ahead, I'll play!!!)

Me, Jackass?

Oh yeah!

You see Stevie, here's the deal. Your arguments defending the virtues of intoxicated drivers and your goofball, paranoid conspiracy theories concerning cops strip searching people for minor traffic violations is not worthy of serious debate by the fine minds here at SOLO. Your's is only worthy of a Jackass like me. (I like to think of it as a public service!)

And, yes Stevie, the boogie man is out there! No, he's not the Nazi-esque policeman you are so afraid of. He's the one swiggin' down a twelve pack and driving 80.

jack

Edit: Sarah, we crossed posts and my above link is from Madd. I will cross reference with other sources to verify their validity.

Edit: Removed inappropriate content.

(Edited by gary williams on 9/25, 9:32am)

(Edited by gary williams on 9/25, 12:58pm)

Post 49

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:39am

Sarah,

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Sorry. Is there something wrong with Madd numbers?

gw

Post 50

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:44am

Gary,

I dunno, but Steven doesn't seem to like them, so I didn't use them. And to a point, statistics are only so useful. That's why I went after an article instead.

Sarah

Post 51

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 11:47am

" He's the one swiggin' down a twelve pack and driving 80. Maybe the the two of you will meet some day. We can only hope."

Fuck you. Make a death wish on me, and this conversation is now over. Sarah, Jody, you will have zero respect from me if you continue to support this jerk who just wished me highway death. You deserve to be banned or at least moderated for that gary.

Post 52

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 12:01pm

Steven,

From what you've presented of yourself on this thread, your respect is not something I'm after. That said, Gary's death wish was out of line, even if it wasn't sincere. That said, since I've started following SOLO I've seen at least two calls for the slaughter of all Muslims. Were you calling for the banning/moderation of those death wishers?

But back to the topic, would you care to respond to my post 47?

Sarah

Post 53

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 12:17pm

Steven, Ross, Robert,

Okay, let's try some other scenarios. What should a Cop do?

A woman is walking home at night and a strange man appears to be following her down a public sidewalk with a butcher knife and duct tape. Should the police stop him and investigate or should they wait until someone complains about being raped?

A man is offering free candy and a ride in his car to children outside an elementary school. Should the police interfere and question him or should they ignore the situation because no children have turned up missing yet?

A foul odor is coming from Mr. Dahmer apartment. Do the police investigate or do they respect Jeffery's right to live in an apartment that reeks of death?

A woman pulls up at a gas station. She proceeds to light up a cigarette while pumping gas. She does have the right to smoke and she does have the right to get gas. Should a police officer stop her or wait and see if anything blows up first?

A young man gets on a subway wearing a large heavy coat in hot weather and is carrying a Koran. He keeps repeating something over and over in what appears to be Arabic. Something about Allah. Does a police officer, who sees and hears this, investigate or does he respect the young man's right to ride a subway with out interference because nothing has blown up yet.

And, this old one - A car is weaving around on a freeway. It crosses several times into other lanes. It even goes into oncoming traffic several times. Does a police officer wait until it hits another car or does he pull the car over immediately.

With all due respect to all three of you guys, this defense of the right to drive drunk on public roads does not fly and it is silly. (My opinion.)

A drunk driver is an eminent threat to the safety of everyone around them. No one has any right to endanger any one else. There is no right to endanger.

Should the police stop people who appear to be drunk? Yes. Stopping someone for weaving on a road is acceptable. It has happened to me. I was not drinking, but I was swerving because I dropped something in the floor and was trying to reach it. I had no right to do that. I was endangering those around me. When I was stopped, there was nothing Gestapo-esque about it. No strip search. Only a test of my capacity to operate my vehicle at that moment. It was a pain in the ass and embarrassing, but I did swerve around and they were out there trying to protect all drivers, including me and the drunks.

Police have the obligation and right to protect. That's what I pay them to do.

gw

Post 54

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 12:20pm

Steven,

You are correct, I was out of line.

I appologize.

gary williams

Post 55

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 1:02pm

Sarah, the logical conclusion to your idea that any alcohol in the system at any time should come to mean no driving whatsoever MEANS that we should install the breathalyzers that are in offender's cars now in all cars. Just to be on the safe side.

Sarah, again, you are ignoring the spectrum of intoxication when you think that any combination of alcohol/driving should be banned. If I blow a .01 from cough syrup (it can and does happen), should I be arrested, fined and labeled an intoxicated driver?

Gary, you come up with a list of scenarios that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Other than the (in your mind) "drunk" driver, all of the other scenarios there was clear criminal INTENT, and the immediate danger of harm. I respectfully present that it is a rare day that anyone driving, intoxicated or not, is intending to harm anyone.

The analogy is thus: we are attempting to ban nuclear weapons for Iran because of their intent and the nature of their system. We do not do this for, say, France, because their intent, at least in the immediate moment, is not to use them in aims of terror or devastation. Therefore, we should prevent those with clear intent to harm and leave those people alone who have done nothing to initiate force. How has an intoxicated driver INITIATED force? By the mere act of driving? Then we are all guilty!

I would encourage somebody other than those who use MADD (I'll just cite Budweiser next time and see how long you let that ride, Sarah) and the disrespectful gary (Post-enima(sic), Village People jokes and death wishes) to throw in their two cents, because I am tired of hearing this inane drivel.

Post 56

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 1:16pm

Steven,

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the honor system. Then again, I was thinking of Sarah's Ideal World, in which the honor system would actually work. As for real world applications, from the above article I linked to:

At BACs approaching 0.10%, there is a significant increase in collisions or near collisions (Voas and Tippetts, 1999; Weiler et al, 2000).

I understand the legal BAC limit in the US to be .08 to .10 depending on the state, which, given the above quote, seems like a reasonable number to choose on the spectrum of intoxication.

Sarah

Post 57

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 1:22pm

Steven,

I would encourage somebody other than those who use MADD (I'll just cite Budweiser next time and see how long you let that ride, Sarah)

Are you going to stick to circumstantial ad hominems or will you give us some evidence that MADD is an unreliable source?

Sarah

Post 58

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 2:26pm

A foul odor is coming from Mr. Dahmer apartment. Do the police investigate or do they respect Jeffery's right to live in an apartment that reeks of death?

Too late Gary, the milwalkee police already beat you to that one.

Returning an underage victim who narrowly escaped to an apartment that reeked of death and belonged to a convicted child molester who was on probation and to have no contact with children.* And cracking jokes about it on the way out.

Sure glad we don't live in a police state.

---Landon

* Morbid side note, Dahmer was on probation for molesting the brother of the victim who died before the police made it all the way out of the building.

Post 59

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 2:42pm