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Post 80

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 2:52pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

There is a "fair use" exemption under copyright law. And if Barbara's or NB's letters are misrepresented, they are free to publish the originals.

Post 81

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 6:46pmSanction this postReply
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"Fair use" does NOT include publishing letters authored by other people without their permission...which the author of the forthcoming book undoubtedly knows. You should check this point with a copyright attorney.


Post 82

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 6:53pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

I believe you are mistaken. A personal letter to another person, no longer belongs to the author; certainly not in the legal sense. If the author of that book has permission from the Rand estate's heir - he is perfectly within his rights to use them.

George


Post 83

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 7:10pmSanction this postReply
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I didn't know the law on this, so I decided to do a google search and came up with two (so far) hits that agree with Robert's position.

from: The University of Texas:

"It is important to note that merely sending a letter to someone does not give the recipient any copyright rights; the author of old letters that are on a shelf or in a file cabinet still owns the copyright. If he or she is deceased, the heirs are the owners."

see also:

http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/html/copyright_faq.html#7.


Post 84

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 7:15pmSanction this postReply
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It appears that I stand corrected.

Thanks Kernon.


Post 85

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 7:21pmSanction this postReply
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You're welcome George.

Found one more thing too (from McGraw-Hill):

"Although the amount of material to be used is an important factor in determining whether a use is fair use, it is not the only factor. There are no set numerical guidelines on what constitutes fair use, and in fact for some types of works, such as poems, song lyrics, and personal letters, use of even the smallest excerpt is probably not allowed under the fair use doctrine.[emphasis added]


Post 86

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 7:54pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Kernon.

You will note that the Letters of Ayn Rand contains no letters TO Rand, only letters FROM her to others. When you send a letter to someone else, the physical letter becomes their property; but the intellectual content does NOT. 


Post 87

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 9:21pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

I had no problem when Barbara posted an excerpt from a letter to her here on Solo. Are you now telling me she violated the sender's copyright? Or is this a case for the proverbial "one penny in damages?"

In any case, the original sender can always publish the original text if a letter is misrepresented. This creates a strong incentive to represent the content of such letters accurately.

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Post 88

Monday, March 28, 2005 - 11:42pmSanction this postReply
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Adam,

Just a small comment:
"I had no problem when Barbara posted an excerpt from a letter to her here on Solo. Are you now telling me she violated the sender's copyright?"
Posts on SOLO do not generate remuneration. If they did, she probably would have violated the copyright if she published the excerpt without permission.

The law is a bit flexible on this issue. (I did a heck of lot of translating on this - forced education.) Even in Kernon's excerpt above, the key word is "probably."

Michael


Post 89

Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 6:31amSanction this postReply
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I don't know the specifics of the post in question by Barbara; perhaps she had already obtained the okay of the letter writer to post an excerpt.

Generally, though, it is illegal...whether or not remuneration is involved. For example, suppose someone wrote you a private letter revealing personal information, and assumed it were being done in confidence. Do you think the person would really care if you published that private information, even though you received no remuneration? Or is the mere fact of your publication damaging to him? Reputation is a value independent of financial considerations.

Also, by publishing or circulating private correspondence, you are depriving its author of potential remuneration that he might receive in the future, should he decided to publish that correspondence himself, or to develop ideas contained therein for commercial use and/or publication.

In short, copyright laws protect the commercial interests, reputation and privacy of a writer. (Copyright does not apply, of course, to things written or said in a public forum or setting, such as this one, unless one has specifically arranged that an article published in a forum is accepted only on condition of copyright protection, and places a copyright notice on it.) 

The anarchist approach to these problems would logically require everyone to cease all communication, verbal or in writing, on the premise that anything you say or write, even in confidence to a single individual, immediately becomes public property. The logical alternative would force you to charge everyone a fee for the privilege of communicating with you in the first place.

(Edited by Robert Bidinotto on 3/29, 6:42am)


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Post 90

Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:24amSanction this postReply
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Robert,

I am going from memory here. What you are talking about, if I a not mistaken, is a mixture of copyright law and slander laws. I can probably look this up if you like.

Remuneration is not the only thing covered in copyright law, of course. But the law is a great deal more lax when remuneration is not involved. At least that has been what I have observed in countless court cases involving licensing agencies.

I have done a great deal more translating of Brazilian copyright issues than American ones (prinicpally ASCAP and PRS Latin American affairs in the music field), but I also did do a hell of a lot in American law. Once I did a good part of the Sonny Bono Act, which practically rewrote the book on the protection time of all copyrights (with the motion picture industry in particular giving a huge sigh of relief as many films were about to go into the public domain) - and other issues.

I will check on this get you specific laws and policy on what the restrictions are in the use of personal correspondence.

One other item should be mentioned. Internet publishing is giving copyright law experts in all fields tremendous headaches, principally because of the difficulty in establishing venue. We are literally in the middle of an historical frontier type period on this matter where any small legal effort could have an enormous impact on the future.

To tell the truth, Objectivist debate could be of benefit to lawmakers and rights entities at this time, but from what I see, it is hard for Objectivists to even arrive at some kind of agreement on basic issues.

Michael


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Post 91

Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 9:02pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

Before I spend a lot of time foraging through those copyright laws again, please check out this article from Nolo called When Copying Is Okay: The "Fair Use" Rule.

Here is a quote from it:
For example, a court held that it was a fair use for a biographer to use a modest amount of material from unpublished letters and journals by the author Richard Wright. (Wright v. Warner Books, Inc., 953 F.2d 731 (2d Cir. 1991).)
Fair use does not require permission from the author. The issue of commercial gain (remuneration) is also briefly discussed in the article.

Will that do it or do you want more?

Edit: btw - Nolo (www.nolo.com) is one of the best do-it-yourself legal sites on the Internet. I started using it a while back for getting a feel of legal terminology when I started doing translations. Plain language explanations and solid legal grounds. The description of copyright law for the uninitiated is extremely good.

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 3/29, 11:10pm)


Post 92

Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 9:42pmSanction this postReply
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Michael: "Do you know what is in those journal entries? Will you be hurt by things Ayn Rand could have said about you (and Nathianel)?"

Ayn showed me some of her journal entries about Nathaniel. In fact, she allowed me to copy them -- because I was expected to tell him Ayn's theories about him and, in effect, to be his therapist. (I know, I know! You don't have to tell me.) The entries I saw were pretty ferocious. But they were somewhat undercut by the fact that she clearly was not happy with any theory she arrived at; they kept changing from week to week, sometimes from day to day. She was hurt and confused, desperate to understand, but she did not understand.

I don't think she had much in her journal about me while I was on her side against Nathaniel. I don't know what she wrote, about either of us, after I left, but no doubt it was very angry and condemning.

No, I don't expect to be hurt. The stories I heard, after I left New York, about what was being said about me will probably make the reality painless.

Oh well, perhaps I'll be a little bit hurt.

Barbara

Post 93

Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:14amSanction this postReply
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For those who may not have heard, it was announced a few minutes ago that Mrs Schiavo has passed away.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152015,00.html

(Edited by Matthew Humphreys on 3/31, 7:16am)


Post 94

Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 12:27pmSanction this postReply
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Yes! Finally the body of Schiavo has died, to be enjoined to the self [ mind] which died fifteen years ago....

Post 95

Friday, April 1, 2005 - 1:33amSanction this postReply
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Though I have had recently (See http://www.solohq.com/Articles/Machan/Machans_Musings_-_Revisiting_the_Death_Penalty.shtml) a deep discrepancy with Mr. Machan's view of the death penalty, during which I presented my definition of the Death Penalty that cannot be contested, I must, in the Terri Schiavo case, break a lance for him. In this case his position is that of a true Objectivist. (I myself have also taken measures to avoid being kept alive in a state of non-humanity).
 
This Schiavo "case" is bringing up the most intimate truth of how feebly some Objectivists stand by the Objectivist philosophyi when it comes to apply it in real life. As Mr. Robert Bidinotto rightly said recently: "That some Objectivists are falling for this naked ploy by politically active mystics is as demoralizing a spectacle as anything I've witnessed in well over 30 years association with this philosophy."
 
In this relation I must state that I strongly disagree with Mr. Perigo's position toward Terri's husband by calling him a "scum-bucket". Mr. Schiavo clearly demonstrated that money is no issue at all when it comes to human decency. By rejecting the million dollar o so offer to sustain the life of a human who became a non-human fifteen years ago, he showed deep sorrow for the heart-rending state of his wife. Ayn Rand clearly defined what a human being is: "A being of volitional consciousness" (Galt's speech). It seems that several Objectivists have lost the knowledge of this definition! Terri had lost consciousness and volition long, long time ago.
 
Terri Schiavo left this definition when her body went into coma ("Rearden went on slowly, not altering his pace, even though he knew that no caution was necessary any longer because what he was carrying in his arms was now that which had been the (Wet Nurse's) teacher's idea of man - a collection of chemicals." - "The Concerto of Deliverance; Atlas Shrugged" - emphasis mine). It would have been deeply humane to administer her the benign form of death penalty nowadays applied in several US States (Sleep injection followed by an injection of poison which the receiver doesn't notice).
 
By the way, can anyone tell me if Mr. Bush's "defense of life" applies also to the many mind-and-body abled men and women he sends to their untimely death by ordering them to any of the areas of conflic around the world where he "thinks" (does he?) that the American interests are at stake (that American and Western interests are at stake in many parts of the world is a fact but I think that a "reborn Christian" knows how to handle this situation as badly as any other leftwinger - such as Moore and Kerry - would do). A case in point is that all the present wars haven't done a damn to get at mass murderers such as Bin Laden and the like. Matter of fact: the WTC killings haven't been avenged so far, that I know.

Now Terri's body is dead. it should have been since long. But her death is a stern warning to several Objectivists calling themselves such, to read again what Rand wrote!


Post 96

Friday, April 1, 2005 - 9:41amSanction this postReply
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You're missing the hysteria and emotionalism that has been foisted on
the masses by the media, the Schindlers and their attorneys.

The courts have seen 11 videos.  Judge Greer ruled in 2002 that Terri's responses are not consistent, ergo they are merely reflexes.


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