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Post 20

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 3:47pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, I did not call you a moron, I was quoting Derek, who, I believe, is giving you the benefit of the doubt. But if you persist in trashing Mario Lanza at SOLO, of all places, well...you're brave, for sure...

I said you may have read a review of a review...or you may have heard me attempting a B flat in the shower this morning...
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 3/02, 3:49pm)

(Edited by Joe Maurone on 3/02, 4:34pm)


Post 21

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 1:26pmSanction this postReply
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There's a simple answer to Mr.Davison ravings. He doesn't know what he is talking about!

Post 22

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 4:39pmSanction this postReply
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Robert Davison has to understand that on Solo we may criticize God, country, and Ayn Rand -- but NEVER Mario Lanza.

Barbara

Post 23

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 5:04pmSanction this postReply
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Roibert- as you can see, murder might have been easier on you at this site than what has followed. All humor aside, you make many points about Lanza's career which need to be taken seriously by all of us at this site. Seriously, the reason we are so sensitive about Lanza is that just as you presented many false arguments against him, the world has done so for 50 years, overlooking the magnificent achievements he made to the art of singing. I assume you disagree with the last statement. I would be happy to debate you in depth on that subject at a later time and, meanwhile, welcome you to Solo.
(Edited by James Kilbourne on 3/02, 6:13pm)


Post 24

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 6:56pmSanction this postReply
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Derek McGovern wrote:

>>If the egregious Mr. Davison had taken the trouble to listen to the disc of live performances that accompanies Armando Cesari's biography of Lanza, he'd have discovered an abundance of effortless B-flats, Bs and high Cs from the beginning of Mario's career to the end.

That appears to be belied by your own testamony. Here are some of your own criticisms.

Serenade - An Underrated Treasure
Mario Lanza
Reviewed by Derek McGovern

To be objective, Mario's acting does veer towards hamminess at times - a fault which director Anthony Mann should have corrected - but there are many scenes in which he is highly effective.

In an operatic montage consisting of Di Rigori Armato, Amor Ti Vieta, and Di Quella Pira, Lanza is outstanding in the first two selections, and disappoints only on the final pinched high C of Di Quella Pira,

One Alone: The Later Years
Mario Lanza
Reviewed by Derek McGovern

Drink, Drink, Drink is next, and although Mario no longer sounds like the youthful prince from his earlier recording, his performance here is still acceptable,

The Riff Song comes first, and together with My Margo features an enthusiastic - if wayward - treatment from Mario. The latter song was deleted from the original album, possibly because the last note (a B-flat) is somewhat strained.


Post 25

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 6:59pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I know who said what and I was not offended. I have a well developed sense of humor for an old curmudgeon.

Post 26

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 7:00pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

You have a well developed sense of humor as well. Loved your book by the way.

b

Post 27

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you James. I don't mean to be offensive, but I do have strong opinions.

I know that Lanza was in some ways treated unfairly, having spent my entire life in the Theatre I can sypathize, and I did apologize for repeating one bit of slander. And, I can listen to Mario for hours and be transported. I just can't be blind to his shortcomings, but then perhaps his sloppiness is his real charm.

Post 28

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 7:51pmSanction this postReply
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James: I think you're being much too easy on Mr. Davison. If we were discussing subjective elements such as one's response to a particular timbre, then of course I could accept differences of opinion. But Mr. Davison asserts nonsense that is demonstrably untrue (ie, that Lanza transposed the Student Prince Serenade down a third), and makes no apology for it. I also note that he made no attempt to back up his earlier claim that Lanza had been laughed off a Milanese stage, so I can only assume that he made the story up. Now he's telling us that Lanza's voice went into decline after 1951, conveniently overlooking great recordings such as The Student Prince soundtrack of 1952-53, the Otello Monologue from Serenade (1955), the operatic material in For the First Time (1958), and masterpieces like Voce 'e Notte and Passione, recorded less than 10 months before Lanza's death. He chooses to quote selectively from my own essays instances in which I frankly acknowledge that Lanza's singing was below par (ie, Di Quella Pira and some of the illness-affected material from 1959), but - again - he conveniently avoids mentioning the many instances in which I do praise the later recordings. 

I wouldn't waste any more time dealing with such a person.

For those who are genuinely interested in Lanza, let me state for the record that the tenor was an erratic artist at times, and that one can find instances of him singing badly at almost any point in his career - including the three-year period in which Mr. Davison grudgingly acknowledges that Lanza was "amazing." But to focus only on Lanza's off-days - and ignore the numerous instances throughout his career in which he did perform magnificently - is to deprive oneself of an incredible artist.   

(Edited by Derek McGovern on 3/02, 7:53pm)


Post 29

Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 9:42pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Davison- I see that you point out my comment about Lanza's flaws in an essay. They are real. But other artist, including Bjorling, Wunderlich and Caruso, have flaws, too. Agree, Lanza was more of a rebel than these three, but it is the flip side of the coin that made his virtues (his emotional connection to the music, his nearly perfect diction, etc.) more possible. He was a new kind of artist, in my opinion.

LINZ- did you notice that I TRIED to talk about Bjorling. They MADE me talk about Lanza!

Post 30

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 2:18amSanction this postReply
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Well at least you've been spared the task of killing Mr. Davison, James. Yes, I'm calling the execution off. Since his credibility is shot, there's no need for him to be. :-)

Linz

PS - Also, that Milan fabrication will keep me in belly-laughs for a long time, along with the thought that the Serenade should have been sung in the key of G (a third up from the "transposed" key that Mario sang it in) with a D above High C ending. Holy Caruso!

Post 31

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

This is off-topic, but whatever happened to the various stage versions of Rand's novels you have written over the years. Will they ever be produced?

b

Post 32

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 9:00amSanction this postReply
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Derek McGovern writes:

>>For those who are genuinely interested in Lanza, let me state for the record that the tenor was an erratic artist at times, and that one can find instances of him singing badly at almost any point in his career - including the three-year period in which Mr. Davison grudgingly acknowledges that Lanza was "amazing." But to focus only on Lanza's off-days - and ignore the numerous instances throughout his career in which he did perform magnificently - is to deprive oneself of an incredible artist.

If the same assessment were made of his peers, would they be listed among the greats? I enjoy Lanza, but I am not a hageologist.

I have also admitted to being a Romberg fan. The best and most complete recording of the Student Prince is with Robert Roundsville. I do not know which version of the Seranade by Lanza I have a copy of, but it is not sung in e-flat. If memory serves it is in C, which if you want to nitpick is not quite a 3rd. I have apologized for and retracted the apocryphal tale of his appearance in Milan.

Post 33

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 9:04amSanction this postReply
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Mr. Perigo,

I accept your dismissal, but for the record, I did not say the Seranade was sung in the key of G.

Sanction: 2, No Sanction: 0
Post 34

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 10:55amSanction this postReply
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Robert - you really ought not to keep digging an even bigger hole for yourself. Mario's famous soundtrack recording of Serenade, the one you refer to, is in E-Flat. If that's transposed down a third, the original key must have been G, which is about as preposterous as your Milan story. Mario never recorded it in C. On the Celanese radio show he sang it in F. On all other occasions he sang it in E Flat, like everyone else I've ever heard. (I put it that way because I believe it was written in F for the original stage show, & maybe someone has recorded it in that key. Only I've never heard them.)

Robert, you should quit while you're not as far behind as you'll end up otherwise. Yes, you withdrew that silly Milan story, but you ought to realise that I for one can't take you seriously when I remember that you so recklessly churned out such complete bullshit in the first place. Nor when you persist with your nonsense about the Serenade. Nor when you say Mario's voice was "shot" by the mid-fifties when the Serenade soundtrack & Cavalcade of Show Tunes albums show his voice with more bloom than ever - not to mention the album of Neapolitian songs & his last movie soundtrack recorded in 1958.

Keep coming back for punishment if you wish, but I would strongly urge you to take time out & read Armando's bio of Mario. You can get it from Amazon. Acquainting yourself with some facts would be a very useful exercise for you at this point.

Linz

Post 35

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 4:19pmSanction this postReply
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Mr Perego,

I said I accept your dismissal, at first I thought this was a subject open to debate and was not cautious. I will not persist, too many reputations/egos are at stake. The alpha males have won. I am silenced.

Post 36

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 5:17pmSanction this postReply
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The fact that things are up for debate here doesn't mean you can expect to get away with nonsense. In debate, nonsense gets trounced. Precisely what happened here. Nothing to do with egos or reputations, although yours sure as hell took a self-inflicted battering.

Here's a site you might like to visit, Robert:

http://www.freeradical.co.nz/lanza/index.php

Post 37

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 8:56pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, I'm delighted to change the subject. You asked me: ". . . whatever happened to the various stage versions of Rand's novels you have written over the years. Will they ever be produced?"

I only wrote one stage version, of THE FOUNTAINHEAD. NBI, with Ayn Rand's approval, was about to produce it off-Broadway. But before that could
happen, Rand broke with Nathaniel and then I bowed out, and the project was canceled. Sadly, I don;'t believe my play can ever be produced, even though Rand said she liked it better than her film version of the novel. But to produce it requires, by my contract with Rand, the agreement of both of us -- which means, now, the agreement of Peikoff and me. And if the play would instantly convert the entire world to Objectivism, Peikoff would not consider that a good enough reason to agree.

Barbara

Post 38

Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 10:18pmSanction this postReply
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Eureka! I have it, Majesty! The perfect penance for Robert and a way of advancing Objectivism at the same time. Send him to Leonard as your emissary to get Peikoff's agreement to this project. Leonard will spontaneously & fatally combust at the mention of "Barbara Branden," so you'll no loner need his agreement, Robert will have the bejeesus scared out of him ... and the play can proceed!

Linz

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Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 39

Friday, March 4, 2005 - 2:51amSanction this postReply
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Sure, Linz. Okay. Right away. Do you think it's time to take a little rest?

Barbara

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