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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 3:47amSanction this postReply
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Adam- I was working on a review which wasn't nearly as good as this, so you have performed a noble service for sparing Solohq readers my lesser work.
My constant feeling throughout this moving was, "Am I really hearing this?" I hope you are right that AR would have appreciated it, but I am not so sure. She didn't do very well with serious topics presented humorously.
Regardless, this is a great movie and certainly should be up for all sorts of Oscars. It is a combination of so many things that I must see it several times to be sure I got it all. It has a lot of Rand, a little Swift and a dose on HL Menken, plus it beats the "Raiders of the Lost Arc" and Bond movies to death. That is for starters.

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Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 8:53amSanction this postReply
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Thank you for the incredible review to an incredible movie.  It deserves to be nominated for (and win) an Oscar for best animinated film, at least.  I will definitely buy the DVD for this film.

Post 2

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 11:07amSanction this postReply
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James,

Thank you - but there is more than enough room for additional writing about this film. I only wrote about its moral lessons; someone should write about the film as a work of art, about its social criticism, etc. I hope that you will just edit the overlap and post your article here too.



Post 3

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 11:52amSanction this postReply
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David Kelley wrote a good review of The Incredibles which is worth reading if you haven't already.

I saw the movie last Friday and enjoyed it immensely, and agree that people of an Objectivist or libertarian persuasion will have much to applaud.  However, I took issue with the 'insurance-companies-are-out-to-screw-people' premise that the writers of the movie seemed to embrace. 


Post 4

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 12:17pmSanction this postReply
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Good review.

Pete,

I think it is possible to argue with this or that aspect of the movie.  I had a problem with the portrayal of insurance companies too, but I think that what those scenes really showed was what happens to a person whose capacity for self-realization is exercised in the wrong place.  Mr. Incredible was actually hurting the company with his behavior - sometimes, self-interest and telling the truth on certain issues can be in conflict.  He was way better off as a superhero.

I was really happy to see that Kelley agreed on that point, though once again, I was slightly disheartened to see more rants against altruism in Scott Holleran's review (as if having regard for the welfare of others is problematic, which is why I'm not always sure that Objectivists are consistent about the distinction between altruism and benevolence).


Post 5

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 12:53pmSanction this postReply
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The concept of insurance companies by itself is neither moral or immoral.  Like in the real world, businessmen can be both good or evil.  What was moral was Mr. Incredible's honesty and integrity.  As an insurance agent (or whatever he was),  he could not bring himself to screw over that old woman when there were legal alternatives.  His boss, on the other hand, wanted profit at any cost, including keeping customers in the dark (a bad business practice).

Post 6

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
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What I really like about this movie is that Mr. Incredible is so unpretentious and down to earth. He is just like, like my Dad.  And the other super heros are the same way too. 

Post 7

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 3:09pmSanction this postReply
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Great review Adam.

I saw the movie last Saturday in a cinema packed out with kids (I believe it was the movie's opening weekend here in the UK). I wonder though how many of those kids'll manage to grasp the message?

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when Objectivist themes can explicitly and openly be displayed in big budget movies. Perhaps the success of The Incredibles will bring that day a little closer.

MH


Post 8

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 3:33pmSanction this postReply
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Funny you should mention that, Matthew, because it looks like "Atlas Shrugged" is going to hit the big screen.  James Hart, who wrote the screenplay for "Hook" and "Contact", is writing the screenplay.  Here is the link:

http://www.atlassociety.org/news_atlas-movie-updated050304.asp

Also, here is a link to an interesting interview with the screenwriter, for those afraid he will not be true to the novel:

http://boxofficemojo.com/articles/news/?id=030517atlas2.htm

(Edited by Byron Garcia on 12/01, 3:38pm)


Post 9

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 3:58pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the links, Byron.  I was a little confused at this passage:

"It will be not be [set in the past]," Hart revealed. "This is 15 years in our future. John Galt, Hank Rearden -- these are the kind of heroes we don't see anymore. All the main characters stay. Jim Taggart and Cherryl are in there. Eddie Willers is in there -- he's the voice."

Does this mean it will be set in the future?  That's my read on it, but I can't tell...

Also, on this same subject, I went to a meeting of a local Objectivist club a couple months ago, and David Kelley and Ed Hudgins from TOC were there promoting their organization.  At the meeting, Kelley spoke about his involvement with this latest attempt at bringing Atlas to the screen.  He is serving as a consultant to the screenwriter to make sure the screenplay is as consistent as possible with Rand's original intent.  He mentioned that it's still not 100% certain that the movie will get made (it's been tried in the past and has been abandoned), but he said things look favorable.

The movie rights to Atlas belong to some East Coast businessman (the guy who owns the company that makes Cybex exercise machines) who is a Rand admirer.   It escapes me whether he bought the rights from Rand, Peikoff,or from someone that Rand sold the rights to prior to her death.  In any event, it was noted that Piekoff and ARI have been remarkably silent about this most recent attempt to make Atlas Shrugged a film.


Post 10

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 4:08pmSanction this postReply
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I can't speak for the writer but I'm guessing it's going to be the near future.  In this Information Age, I'm not sure audiences will connect with locomotives and steel mills like they must have in the 50's.  I don't know, though, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Post 11

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 5:06pmSanction this postReply
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Adam, thank you for posting this wonderful review.  I am anxiously awaiting the day to see this movie (must study for GMAT first!!!).

Pete, from what I understand, Mr. Aglialoro (CEO of Cybex) purchased the rights from Peikoff.  Otherwise I can assure you that David Kelley would not be allowed within 100 miles of that script.  :) 

Byron, you bring up a compelling point about the industries involved in the plot of Atlas.  Perhaps if the appropriate futurustic spin is put on them they could work (i.e. high-speed magnetic trains), but that does deviate quite a bit from the book -- I'll be interested to see how the writer deals with that. 

I have been watching this drama unfold for nearly a decade, so I will be surprised if/when it actually does get to the big screen.  I once thought Harrison Ford would make a great Hank Rearden, but now he's just too damn old.  :)

Though much will obviously have to be left out of the script, if the movie is done well, it could introduce a whole new world to the concept of man as he might be, and ought to be.  Let's hope The Incredibles is just the start of a tidal wave.


Post 12

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 5:28pmSanction this postReply
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I think airlines would be a good substitute for railroads.  I just hope they don't make Richard Halley a hip hop artist - Hollywood has committed greater travesties. :-)

Post 13

Wednesday, December 1, 2004 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
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I thought Ed Snider of the Philadelphia Flyers/Comcast had the rights to ATLAS?

I always thought the toughest part of doing the movie would be the Concerto of Deliverance. I fear the same thing would happen to it that happened to Roark's buildings in the FOUNTAINHEAD movie: they would not match the literary descriptions. Having said that, I think the soundtrack for an ATLAS movie would have to be very sparse, to provide a contrast for the Concerto. The Concerto would have to play a prominent role, from the whistling on the train to the triumphant ending. The party scenes could have some music playing, lightly, until the "remix" of Halley's music comes on the radio all jumbled and chaotic. But for the most part, I think the incidental music should be kept to a minimum, to allow for the Concerto to resonate. The lack of music could represent the lack of spirit of the world in Atlas, the music becoming stronger as the viewer approaches Galt's Gulch, almost like the transition from black and white to color in THE WIZARD OF OZ.


(Edited by Joe Maurone on 12/01, 7:20pm)


Post 14

Friday, December 3, 2004 - 8:17amSanction this postReply
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Adam, yours is the only review I've read that draws comparisons between Edna Mode and Syndrome. Producing for gods, versus tearing them down.

Brilliant!


Post 15

Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 2:58amSanction this postReply
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(I have posted this also over on the aviator thread as well).

 

The incredibles is not an objectivist friendly movie.

The super-powers of the “incredibles” are inherited through blood, not earned through merit.

 

For me, the defining philosophy of this film is highlighted when Mr. Incredible says to his daughter as a morale boost. "You'll do great. It's in your blood!"

 

In fact, the only Objectivist-friendly aspect of the film is the evil villain. He wants, through the development of new technology to make everyone into a super hero. Quite an objectivist ideal if you ask me.

 

Therefore this film depicts the noble ideals of technology and innovation through reason and reality as being the ideals of a perverted and twisted villain!!! That is philosophically wrong headed!!!

 

I am not saying that the film is not entertaining as a comedy on a simple level. But it is basically a run-of-the-mill family sitcom film with a super-hero twist.

 

I was very disappointed. Objectivist-friendly it isn’t!!!!




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Post 16

Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 3:23amSanction this postReply
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Marcus,

I'll respond here and leave the other thread to discussion of The Aviator.
 

Therefore this film depicts the noble ideals of technology and innovation through reason and reality as being the ideals of a perverted and twisted villain!!! That is philosophically wrong headed!!!


As Adam explains in his review, Edna Mode is also a technological innovator. The difference between her and the villain Syndrome is that she accepts the primary of reality whereas he does not. As for Syndrome's wish for everyone to be superheroes, that's a bit like leftists wanting every child to succeed at school, and in both cases their efforts at achieving it amount in fact to taring down the truly successful.

 

MH



Post 17

Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 7:29amSanction this postReply
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MH,

 

Adam's articles is full of rationalizations.

 

The "villain" Syndrome had made his money thus far by selling his technology to the public.

 

That is completely in contrast to the leftists wish to have everyone succeed at someone else's expense, and usually to the detriment of those that do achieve.

 

Syndrome was morally flawed because he wanted to use force against the super-heroes in order to destroy them. This just makes the packaging of his use of force against others together with the values of an entrepreneur and innovator all the more sickening.

 

As for the Edna Mode character. How does she even figure into morality? She never explicitly makes a case for what she considers moral or not. For all we know, Syndrome may have also got his suit designed by her as well.

 

Basically she is just a character to be mocked in this film. If she too represents the innovator, then that just reinforces the immorality or moral apathy associated with her type even more.

 

You notice that as a regular person Mr. Incredible is completely impotent to fulfil any role as a creator at all. In fact, he is mocked and derided by all those around him including his wife and family. Without his "innate" powers he is just a self-sacrificing altruist!!!

 

That is the only moral quality depicted in this film from the super-heroes.

 

When you get down to the bare-bones of it, this film is really anti-technology and anti-innovation and anti-selfishness (in the objectivist sense).

 

 



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Post 18

Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 8:16amSanction this postReply
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Marcus,

I'll be interested to see what (if anything) Adam has to say about your comments. For my part:

Adam's articles is full of rationalizations.

I disagree.

 

The "villain" Syndrome had made his money thus far by selling his technology to the public.

Peter Keating makes money by selling stuff to the public too. So what? 

That is completely in contrast to the leftists wish to have everyone succeed at someone else's expense, and usually to the detriment of those that do achieve.

Hmm I'd actually say Syndrome is closer to a total Neitzchean "archetype" than anything else - some potentially good qualities but they're corrupted by his willingness to use force.

 

Syndrome was morally flawed because he wanted to use force against the super-heroes in order to destroy them. This just makes the packaging of his use of force against others together with the values of an entrepreneur and innovator all the more sickening.

Syndrome has mixed premises, along with any number of businessmen I could mention from Atlas Shrugged.

 

As for the Edna Mode character. How does she even figure into morality? She never explicitly makes a case for what she considers moral or not. For all we know, Syndrome may have also got his suit designed by her as well.

I think it's pretty clear she represents the values of innovators minus Syndrome's use of force. Her comments when she made the suits for the Incredibles make it unlikely she made Syndrome's suit also.

 

Basically she is just a character to be mocked in this film. If she too represents the innovator, then that just reinforces the immorality or moral apathy associated with her type even more.

No she's not there to be mocked - her suits help the Incredibles win.

 

You notice that as a regular person Mr. Incredible is completely impotent to fulfil any role as a creator at all. In fact, he is mocked and derided by all those around him including his wife and family. Without his "innate" powers he is just a self-sacrificing altruist!!!

He becomes mocked and derided when he tries to conform, to not stand out as being different to anyone else.

 

That is the only moral quality depicted in this film from the super-heroes.

Courage? Benevolence? Justice? Love?

 

When you get down to the bare-bones of it, this film is really anti-technology and anti-innovation and anti-selfishness (in the objectivist sense).

The Incredibles are perfectly willing to make full use of technology  when it suits their purposes. Technology and innovation isn't shown to be good or bad per se, but innovation without proper premises is shown to be monumentally dangerous.

MH


Post 19

Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
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"Peter Keating makes money by selling stuff to the public too. So what?"

 

You imply that Syndrome by using his own initiative must be a second-hander like Peter Keating.

 

Was Syndrome stealing Mr. Incredible’s ideas?

 

No. Mr. Incredible could hardly rub two brain cells together. He is often depicted as being a clumsy buffoon for comedy purposes.

 

This type of incipient sneering in family sitcoms at the Father is all too prevalent in today's culture ala' "the Simpsons". Also the luddite-type supposition of "geniuses" unchecked using technology for evil or immoral purposes.

 

Funny enough, Syndrome was not anti-mankind in general, he was only anti-super hero. The super hero, born with innate powers, may be seen as being the Nietzschean "archetype" in fact. (Although this statement only refers to the popular mistaken interpretation of Nietzschean ideas).

 

Anyway, this topic, probably deserves an entire article. And Linz is having a fit about slackers today :-)

 


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