About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Post 0

Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 5:04pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I feel the same thing.  Great choice!

Post 1

Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 5:47pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Something about this picture reminds me of a Hemingway story... I think it is called "A Clean Well Lighted Place." Which is about the melancholy that settles over once everyplace has closed and one still wants a place to be near others, I think, (it has been a while since I've read it, so I could just be remembering it the way I want).

Post 2

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 7:40amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Alone with my thoughts but far from lonely is how this painting speaks to me.

thanks for the post Num++

Post 3

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 8:51amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Perhaps because this is an Objectivist site this painting reminds me of the scene where Dagny is in such a diner and reflects on how much one gets for the small price of a cup of coffee.

Post 4

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 11:59amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Glad you people liked it.

For those who want to read or reread the Hemingway short story (my thanks to Ashley F. for reminding me of it):
A Clean, Well-Lighted Place

Perhaps 'melancholy' is too dark. 'Pensive' or 'contemplative' is more like it. I did once reply that I was pensive, only to be asked what 'pensive' meant. Well, I wasn't too pensive after that!

Those who'd like to see more Edward Hopper paintings can click this link to his part of the Art Renewal Center (ARC) museum. His works almost always have the same theme of aloneness.

And I'd recommend that anyone who enjoys viewing (non-pomo) paintings visit the ARC site (if they haven't bookmarked it already!). It's fantastic - you can get lost for hours without the tired legs.



Post 5

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 2:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Interesting painting. At the beginning I was attracted to the couple, then the bartender (btw, what kind of  uniform is that?), because they are the ones with brighter colors and in the light. It took a few more minutes before I finally focused on the guy at the exact center of the painting, with back to us, and half of his form dissolved in the darkness...now he intrigued me beyond words...  Thanks, num++.


Post 6

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 3:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Isn't there a famous take-off of this painting with Elvis, Marylin and Bogart?

Post 7

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 3:21pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
You are right, Marcus! Here it is!

(Edit to modify the link.)

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 6/13, 3:23pm)


Post 8

Monday, June 13, 2005 - 4:22pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks Hong.

I forgot about James Dean.

Given the early demise of all four of these 50's superstars, the title is perfect as well, "Boulevard of Broken Dreams".


Post 9

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 9:44amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

I like it, too, num++. Very much. And I like the uniqueness of his work.

Barbara

P.S. Aren't you ever going to tell us your name? How long can we go on calling a real human being "num++?"

Post 10

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 2:33pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Looks like I'll have to fess up a thing or two...

One of the reasons I posted this (other than that I really liked it) is to get Newberry's take on it (seems he's busy in the meantime). I've read reviews of this work which I disagree with considerably and I wanted to see if I got something really wrong. The reviews have in no way changed my response to the painting.

For example, from this webpage:
Text from "Sister Wendy's American Masterpieces":

.... It is easy to understand its appeal. This is not just an image of big-city loneliness, but of existential loneliness: the sense that we have (perhaps overwhelmingly in late adolescence) of being on our own in the human condition. When we look at that dark New York street, we would expect the fluorescent-lit cafe to be welcoming, but it is not. There is no way to enter it, no door. The extreme brightness means that the people inside are held, exposed and vulnerable. They hunch their shoulders defensively....

....Hopper described this work as a painting of "three characters." The man behind the counter, though imprisoned in the triangle, is in fact free. He has a job, a home, he can come and go; he can look at the customers with a half-smile. It is the customers who are the nighthawks. Nighthawks are predators - but are the men there to prey on the woman, or has she come in to prey on the men? To my mind, the man and woman are a couple, as the position of their hands suggests, but they are a couple so lost in misery that they cannot communicate; they have nothing to give each other. I see the nighthawks of the picture not so much as birds of prey, but simply as birds: great winged creatures that should be free in the sky, but instead are shut in, dazed and miserable, with their heads constantly banging against the glass of the world's callousness....
Obviously, this is not at all what I 'get' from the painting. Note that I'm no expert in art or art evaluation. This is one case where the opinion of a Newberry is very much needed. Of course, if anyone has their own take, well I'll certainly listen.

One of the many corruptions of the current post-modern art scene is that it introduces mush in someone seriously trying to find some validation from a response to an artwork.

From an Amazon description of Sister Wendy Beckett:
Sister Wendy Beckett has been dubbed a "pop star" by the New York Times and "a phenomenon" by the Washington Post. She is certainly one of the world's best-known and best-loved art critics, familiar to millions from her wildly popular art series on PBS.

....Sister Wendy Beckett is a contemplative nun. She lives alone in a second-hand trailer on the grounds of a Carmelite monastery in Norfolk, England. She has a degree in English from St. Anne's College, Oxford, but she is a self-taught art lover. Her expert ability to critique and interpret art is recognized worldwide.
I don't suppose that teaching oneself art should result in similar appraisals with other 'self-taughts,' but I certainly wonder at the reasons for her "worldwide" acclaim.
_______________________

Hong, I think that man's dress was just a typical uniform for a diner in 1940's New York.

Marcus, thanks for making "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" known to me. I still prefer the sans-celebrities-original though. :-)

Barbara, what can I say but "Great minds think alike"? LOL! I think someone just shot me for the presumptuous sacrilege (thank goodness the unsanction button hasn't made a return yet!). Your Majesty can call me 'Lanai Earl' or just 'Lanai.' It's still not my real name but it's very close (much much closer than say, 'Ayn Rand' to 'Alissa Rosenbaum'). I'll probably reserve exposing my real name for when I have something of my own art noteworthy enough to post here (I dunno if ever this is going to happen, though. I'm not exactly loaded with talent in art).

Post 11

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 6:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
num++,
Like you, I see the painting in a diferent light than does Sister Wendy. As is true of many of Hopper's paintings, I don't sense that his characters are so much victims of the world's callousness as they are the type who prefer a large degree of solitude, albeit sometimes while with others. It has the appeal of a Diogenes Club without the strict bylaws.

J

Post 12

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 7:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Num++,

Hey, I have the all-in-one book “Sister Wendy’s Story of Painting” at my home! We bought it about nine years ago after I watched her on PBS! I liked how she explained each painting – not very technical, but mostly about artist’s background, subject of the painting, and the visual and emotional impact the painting had on the viewers. It was her sarcastic take on Thomas Gainsborough’s Mr. And Mrs. Andrews that really hooked me. If you ever saw Sister Wendy on TV, you might understand her appeal to the mass.

 

I usually like Sister Wendy’s interpretation of paintings, but I agree with you that her take on “Nighthawks” is somewhat over the top. I haven’t paid too much attention to the “hawk” in the title. Actually I thought it was “Night owls!” To me, the painting exudes a very contemplative mood. It reminded me of a time when man and woman were still looking for each other, and looking for a place that they could call home. It also contains some kind of drama in its characters, whatever it may be.

 

Btw, num++, I thought your background is in science or engineering.

 
Hong

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 6/15, 7:21pm)


Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:26pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Text from "Sister Wendy's American Masterpieces":

.... It is easy to understand its appeal. This is not just an image of big-city loneliness, but of existential loneliness: the sense that we have (perhaps overwhelmingly in late adolescence) of being on our own in the human condition. When we look at that dark New York street, we would expect the fluorescent-lit cafe to be welcoming, but it is not. There is no way to enter it, no door. The extreme brightness means that the people inside are held, exposed and vulnerable. They hunch their shoulders defensively....

....Hopper described this work as a painting of "three characters." The man behind the counter, though imprisoned in the triangle, is in fact free. He has a job, a home, he can come and go; he can look at the customers with a half-smile. It is the customers who are the nighthawks. Nighthawks are predators - but are the men there to prey on the woman, or has she come in to prey on the men? To my mind, the man and woman are a couple, as the position of their hands suggests, but they are a couple so lost in misery that they cannot communicate; they have nothing to give each other. I see the nighthawks of the picture not so much as birds of prey, but simply as birds: great winged creatures that should be free in the sky, but instead are shut in, dazed and miserable, with their heads constantly banging against the glass of the world's callousness....
Obviously, this is not at all what I 'get' from the painting. Note that I'm no expert in art or art evaluation. This is one case where the opinion of a Newberry is very much needed.
Hi Num++,

I just saw this post now. (I am in a Starbucks, on my laptop wireless, at the foothills of Los Angeles Mountains, having just finished a day of painting landscapes.)

I enjoyed Sister Wendy's comments, first thing I have read of her's. She is simply observing what she sees and thinks about about the metaphysical meanings of what it is going on, as a world view. I don't know what she says further. But what is here is excellent.

I have about five minutes before Starbucks closes. I would go on to talk about the angular composition--how it fits in with the coldness of the feeling...the influence of Picasso, sharpe angles...the mood is also very similar to the moods of Raymond Chandler...then talk abou the brilliant light, cleanliness...they all look like they work...the composition is absolutely brilliant and innovative. (but I am tossing that off...I would make historical comparisons) There are so many different angles that one can appreciate a painting.

I have to run now.

Michael


Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 14

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 12:24amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hong's right that Sister Wendy is fun to watch. Well, that is when she's not talking about a painting's naughty bits. There's nothing like a bucktoothed nun blissfully pointing out penduwous bweasts and fwuffy pubic haiw to put you off your appetite for a few weeks. But other than that, her love of art is enchanting.

J


Post 15

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:47amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
...bucktoothed nun blissfully pointing out penduwous bweasts and fwuffy pubic haiw
Hey, Sister Wendy never does that! And I personally think her buckteeth adorable. ;-)

What I found particularly appealing is that the Catholic nun factor never comes into play when she comments on a painting. She approaches a religious themed painting with the same sensitivity and objectivity as with an erotic painting.

Michael N., I somehow had a hunch before that you might like Sister Wendy. There are a few paintings that her comments have left a deep impression on me. One is her take on Rambrandt's "Jewish Bride". She thinks it is the most moving expression of love that has ever been captured on canvas. She also likes Jasper Johns, considers "Dancers on a plane" very beautiful.

Hong   


Post 16

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I like "Nighthawks" because I get calm, an orderly universe, and serenity from Hopper. Nothing negative, not loneliness, no melancholy. It's a combination of the subject and the technique that does this: He shows a very clean and orderly place, probably late in an evening - streets with no trash on them, a luminous diner. The shining coffee urns and mahogany bar and green border. The clean white uniform of the waiter, a well-dressed man next to a woman with a vivid red dress. All of them take pride in their appearance. It is a very civilized scene - people out in the evening for a cup of coffee and a bit of conversation of the way home. Hopper doesn't paint a lot of clutter, which adds to the orderliness.

And the overall effect of these positive things and of the simplicity of the scene is that positive things like these are everyday occurrences.

The diner itself...set off from the darkness, as civilization itself is. The ordinariness here works. He's saying, whether he knows it or not, that the ordinary is good. The ordinary world is one of value.

And so the sum total for me is serenity.

Phil

Post 17

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:37amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
It appears a lot of people feel the same way I did. The similarities are uncanny. From his post above, it's like Philip just read my mind. 'Serenity' is indeed descriptive of this painting's effect on me.

Could it be that the crisp organization of this work appeals to Objectivists enough to be a sort of personality test? It is an intriguing possibility. Most people dread solitude, many objectivists cherish it. If similarly composed paintings earn the same divergent reactions, there may be a genre of "objectivist visual art" just waiting to be explored.
___________________

Hong, my background is indeed engineering, but I do have wide ranging interests - with art, it is quite recent. What better way to learn composition than by picking artists' brains?

Newberry:
...the composition is absolutely brilliant and innovative. (but I am tossing that off...
Please don't! TOSS IN everything! Include the kitchen sink!


Post 18

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 3:41pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
"Hey, Sister Wendy never does that!"

You're right, Hong. I wasn't very precise in relaying Sister Wendy's comments. What she actually said was that the pubic haiw in Stanley Spencer's _Self Portrait with Patricia Preece_ was ~wovewy~ and fwuffy.

Sorry for the careless omission. ;-)

J



Post 19

Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 7:28pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Jonathan, sorry, you kind of creep me out. If it's wovewy and fwuffy, then it's wovewy and fwuffy. What's the big deal? "put you off your appetite for a few weeks"?! Geez.

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 6/16, 7:33pm)


Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.