RoR: Forum

Michael,

"...when someone puts their time and effort on the line, applaud or just leave it alone."

Jeff is doing something constructive, putting his time, effort, and money on the line. ...

Your foray into art appropriation was pure wanking-no thought, value, or effort.

Translation:
You'll personally define the line for yourself (and we should all do the same) between what's time and effort, and what's "pure wanking." You'll either applaud or just leave alone what you evaluate as thought and effort and the other stuff you'll criticize.

Sounds to me like you've merely dressed up subjectivism as a counterfeit recipe for objectivism. All that you are in fact saying is that if you like a creation -- i.e., if you think it was created well (you know, with "time" and "effort") -- then you should applaud or just leave it alone and, if you don't like a creation, then you can criticize it. Forget the 'labor theory of value', you've discovered or invented the 'labor theory of evaluation.'

What outstanding moral guidance, Michael! Tell me, what should one do if someone spent a lot of time and effort to create some postmodern shit-on-a-stick? Should we either applaud or just leave alone (because of the time and effort)? Should we find a way to rearrange things around in our mind so that the time and effort don't count?

Michael, why don't you start a new thread on your labor theory of evaluation (rather than answer me here). I don't want any concrete-bound kooks coming on here claiming that I'm claiming that Jeff's virtuous project is effortful shit-on-a-stick (further hijacking the thread).

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/29, 1:50am)

Post 41

Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 9:45am

Ed,

You keep hijacking this thread making it all about you.

Again, Jeff is being an activist with his time, intelligence, and money. Fighting the good fight. I wouldn't care if none of the politicians read Atlas, but I love the morality of sending it to them. People can be afraid of what they don't know and don't understand - and that can take some bluster out of their sails.

Likewise, you don't know the difference between creating art and vandalizing it. If you were to create your own works, I think you did something with baby Ed, you put time and effort into that, and I have no comment on it. But the thing you did with another's poem was disgusting.

Perhaps like the rare but fascist politician that would read Atlas with a thinking mind and learn something, it would benefit you to understand and learn why you have no right to appropriate art.

Michael

Post 42

Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 6:22pm

Michael,

You have great points about what Jeff is doing.

I disagree that you get to be offensive toward me and, in the event that I try to defend myself, then that makes me the one who's guilty of thread-hijacking. That's like a rapist complaining about the subsequent scratches on his face. So I have to say "No thanks" to your "offer" for me to take moral blame here.

You have a strong opinion about what I "did" to Desiderata. I don't agree with your opinion and there is rational support for this disagreement already in that thread. I'll admit one thing, I should have put "revision" (as in "My revision of Desiderata") in quotes in the title to the thread. Otherwise, the title is deliberately inaccurate -- I was embellishing on an ambiguity.

Did you notice that I keep doing things like that with thread titles, thinking as much about the marketing as I do about the truth? The last time I did that was when I titled a thread: Born without a subconscious: More evidence for Rand's view of mind. I got called out on it that time, too. In truth, nobody's born without a subconscious. How dare I say so, then!

One solution is for me to stop doing things like that. I would prefer it, however, if folks would just expect me to use shocking language for titles (i.e., if they would just "get over it"). Rand called a book of hers: "The Virtue of Selfishness" -- knowing full well that it would get reactions from people very much like how you have reacted to me.

Maybe, instead of me changing, maybe you should just lighten up and stop continuing to think that I think I'm some great artist -- or that I think I get to appropriate others' art (because I think I'm special, or something).

Ed

p.s. Thanks for your communicated silence regarding my Little Eddie Objectivist series. I take your silence as a compliment of sorts.
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/29, 6:24pm)

Post 43

Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 6:49pm

Mindy Newton touched a nerve. "No quantity of logos beside your name can change nor hide ..."

What happened is that Ted Keer felt diminished by not having earned a lot of Atlases. So, he and Ed Thompson went back through each other's posts, sanctioning them, until they both had 6500 Atlas Points and 5 Atlases.

I, on the other hand, as a previously identified anarcho-capitalist, only garner hits when I actually say something that impresses someone.... you know, like, in actually being right about something... which Ed and Ted were not by definition.

Post 44

Monday, March 30, 2009 - 6:12am

What happened is that Ted Keer felt diminished by not having earned a lot of Atlases. So, he and Ed Thompson went back through each other's posts, sanctioning them, until they both had 6500 Atlas Points and 5 Atlases.

I, on the other hand, as a previously identified anarcho-capitalist, only garner hits when I actually say something that impresses someone.... you know, like, in actually being right about something... which Ed and Ted were not by definition.

Jesus Christ, people!

What's with this dog-piling on me (and Ted, who's not here to defend himself)? You guys are all hijacking Jeff's thread, you know. Why don't you all just start your own threads? I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't defend myself here.

For the record, Ted and I didn't engage in the practice Mike describes (I don't know where you're even coming from, Mike).

Ed

p.s. Jeff, part of me wants to say sorry for all these thread hijacks, but part of me sees the complete moral inversion required for me to be the one who's sorry (when I'm not the bully or the instigator).

Post 45

Thursday, April 2, 2009 - 11:26am