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Monday, May 24, 2010 - 12:28amSanction this postReply
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In this segment, Maddow criticizes Rand Paul for defending the right of private businesses to practice racial discrimination. She refers to the notorious Southern lunch counters that had a policy of not serving blacks and which were the site of the famous sit-in demonstrations in the late '50's. She points out how harmful to blacks such a policy of discrimination was, and expresses astonishment that Paul would defend its legality.

Unfortunately, Paul fails to stress that the reason these lunch counters had such a policy is that they were forced by the Jim Crow laws to segregate their facilities. Here is an example of one such law from Birmingham Alabama that was typical of those which were eventually over-turned by the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

SECTION 369. SEPARATION OF RACES
It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place of the serving of food in the city at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectually separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment.


Since restaurants and lunch counters didn't have the money (or didn't want to incur the expense) to construct separate doors and partitions as required by law, they settled for serving the race with the greatest number of potential customers, namely, whites.

If whites and blacks weren't willing to sit together in a restaurant or if the restaurant wasn't willing to serve them, then the Jim Crow laws mandating segregated facilities wouldn't have been necessary. It is therefore reasonable to infer that without these laws, restaurants would have found it profitable to serve both blacks and whites at the same lunch counters.

So even if it were legal for a private restaurant to practice racial discrimination, it is unlikely even in the old South that they would have done so, since they would undoubtedly have lost business.

In fact, Maddow could just as well argue that an avowed racist shouldn't be allowed to run for president, since he would wreak havoc on the country if elected. But since it unlikely that such a person ever would be elected, it is foolish to eviscerate free elections just to guard against that possibility.

By the same token, since it is equally unlikely that a private restaurant that refused to serve blacks would survive, it is just as foolish to eviscerate private property rights in order to guard against that possibility.

- Bill

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Monday, May 24, 2010 - 10:42amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for pointing out the Jim Crow origin of those racist lunch counters.

I would imagine that in a larger city, there would be enough people for a niche market for racism to emerge. Not necessarily white racists, either -- there are some black people who don't care much for whites, and would like a black only restaurant or nightclub, or asians who would prefer the exclusive company of asians, or in Hawaii locals who don't care for the presence of "effinghaoles" (one word, without the euphemism).

Offensive as that is, a truly free society allows people to be as much of a jerk as they want, so long as they don't harm others (and by "harm", I don't mean "refuse to trade with them").

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Monday, May 24, 2010 - 12:13pmSanction this postReply
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Bill makes a good point with the Jim Crow laws and the effects they would have. But I spent a lot of time in the South when I was young and they would have had some "Whites Only" lunch counters even if there had been no Jim Crow laws. Racism is immoral and evil but it shouldn't be illegal. It falls into that same category as people getting on a soapbox and advocating Nazi policies - we protect free speech by defending it's use even for ugly purposes. Private property has to be just as sacred as free speech. The broader protection is keeping government out of legislating morality. Government doesn't protect individual rights because that is the moral thing to do, it protects individual rights because it has been granted that power, and only that power. We delegated that power to government because that is the purpose of government, but also because it is the only power we can morally have over others. Can't give what you don't have.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 - 11:25pmSanction this postReply
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Bill makes a good point with the Jim Crow laws and the effects they would have. But I spent a lot of time in the South when I was young and they would have had some "Whites Only" lunch counters even if there had been no Jim Crow laws.
And the solution to that, Steve, would be competition. "Whites only" lunch counters would open up a niche market for other restaurateurs to make some money by starting either black or desegregated lunch counters. Even if the locals were so prejudiced that none was interested, there would be an incentive for a national chain to move there and exploit a profit opportunity.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 1:57amSanction this postReply
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Bill,

I agree. When things aren't driven underground by making them illegal, the market place can work on them openly. Economics if a powerful force for righting illogical discrimination. A number of years ago, there was a savings and loan company that made a point of hiring women mangers and executives - because at the time women weren't seen by many as being equal to men, so they could hire sharper people for less money.

But even more important is that making bigotry legal makes it visible for what it is. And that makes the moral conflict resolve faster. Evil is often stupid and when it is visible that is seen by more, it loses face, and it loses the moral high ground much faster.

But Jim is right about one thing. When people are bigots they will attempt to put it in practice. And in some areas, like private property, where it should be legal, it will happen. There would still be some "Whites Only" lunch counters and it would be naive to say that if all things that should be legal, were legal, that it would be a perfect world. No, it would be perfect set of laws but an imperfect set of people who would still do things like take harmful drugs, act like bigots, etc. I believe that the better the laws, the better the influences on people - but there are other forces in the world. Like making errors in logic, and making bad choices in areas where one's psychology is formed, and bad character traits.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 11:03amSanction this postReply
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Steve -- bigots already do practice their beliefs. There are skinhead bars in Idaho that don't have a "whites only" sign out front because of the laws, but where a black person would be well advised to not step inside. There are black restaurants and nightclubs in Harlem where if I were to walk in, I would be made to feel thoroughly unwelcome. Go to craigslist and peruse dating ads -- you will find people specifying the ethnicity they will date.

I say, bring it out into the open. These laws infringe upon freedom of speech. If people want to be openly racist, let them do so, and then I will know not to ever do business with them again. Yes, feelings will be hurt -- and racists will find themselves being shunned and ostracized and mocked, and deservedly so. Free speech -- freedom -- can be an uncomfortable thing compared to enforced political correctness, but I'll take freedom even though the price is sometimes my tender sensibilities will be trampled on.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 11:29amSanction this postReply
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Jim,

Your post is written as if you think we have a disagreement on this. We don't. I agree completely. Individual igots may or may not be expressing their views in a public fashion right now. Your examples of those who are, were very good. If it were legal to put "White Only" signs in the windows, there would be more public expressions. But making it legal is the right thing to do, and in the end it would also do more to end bigotry than trying to outlaw it. Please take a look at my post and let me know if my wording leads to a misunderstanding.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 10:21pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for clarifying, Steve. We actually agree on something! ;)

Actually, we agree on, like, 99% of everything relative to the rest of the population. The difference between a minarchist and an anarchist about the role of government is considerably less than the difference between, say, a center-right Republican and a right-leaning centrist Republican. The stuff everyone here agrees about gets a post or two, then the thread ends due to consensus.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 11:04pmSanction this postReply
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Jim,

You said, "The difference between a minarchist and an anarchist about the role of government is considerably less than the difference between, say, a center-right Republican and a right-leaning centrist Republican."

We strongly disagree on that! The difference between an anarchist and a minarchist is like the difference between night and day. It is like the difference between protecting individual rights, and violating individual rights.

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