RoR: Forum

One of the few good moments in that movie. Thanks, Eve.

Post 1

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 2:01am

Sure thing!

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 2:53am

Eve - excellent quote :-)

Andrew - slightly off topic but out of interest, what did you have against the movie?

MH

Post 3

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 4:39am

Matt,

I'm not sure if you asked because you haven't seen it yet, or because you have and liked it. If the former, I would certainly recommend the movie, it's actually an enjoyable watch IMO (I get really harsh with Star Trek flicks because I'm a hardcore Trekkie nerd, and venting my frustration on the stewards of the canon is a proven method to prevent acne outbreaks).

If the latter, here's my detailed criticism of the film:

Almost until the end, Picard seems convinced that somehow he's "as bad as Shinzon," or "could, but for the grace of God, have gone the way of Shinzon." (Not actual quotes, but they were the feeling I had from watching it.) So it bought right into the false nature/nurture dichotomy--with this quote, as I said, being one of the rare exceptions. Plus, it was just a rehash of Star Trek II, with the enemies made to look scarier, darker lighting, etc.

*************** SPOILER ALERT *************************

**** SERIOUSLY, HUGE-ASS TREKKIE SPOILER COMING UP! *****

Plus, Data's death and its aftermath in the movie were, I found, completely unsatisfying. The movie's writers seemed to be intentionally pushing the message that Data could not become fully human until he sacrificed himself for a crewmate. Of course, we were left with the contrived plot device of an emergency transporter, that could only beam one person back alive, and two people still on board the self-destructing ship. What hogwash!

I have read that many scenes, including Troi and Riker's wedding, and the crew's farewell to Data, were severely cut to try and reduce the movie's length. I might have had much better feelings about the movie if those scenes had been preserved. Buncha boneheaded Hollywood morons...

***** END SPOILER ********

Post 4

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 8:42am

Nice quote from the movie. I watched it last weekend and enjoyed, though like Andrew I was turned off by the sacrificial aspect.

Nice one Eve.

Post 5

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 8:49am

Thanks Andrew.

I have seen it and generally enjoyed it, particularly those sections dealing with Data's quest to become more human. It wasn't the best Star Trek movie by a long shot, but I thought it nowhere near as bad as many critics seemed to make out.

Now guys, let me be a bit controversial: I didn't find Data's death at all sacrificial. The moment where he took one last look at the Enterprise on the viewing screen and said simply "Goodbye" is probably the most human moment Data ever had. Every single person he valued were about to die, and he saved them all. Some values can be worth dying for.

Edited to add: Lets hope that a director's cut or otherwise extended version is released on DVD, incorporating the proper farewell to Data (I'm not one for extended periods of mourning for the dead, but the way everybody else basically got over the whole thing in like under two minutes is one of the things I disliked about the movie.)

MH

(Edited by Matthew Humphreys on 5/02, 8:55am)

Post 6

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:10am

Almost until the end, Picard seems convinced that somehow he's "as bad as Shinzon," or "could, but for the grace of God, have gone the way of Shinzon." (Not actual quotes, but they were the feeling I had from watching it.) So it bought right into the false nature/nurture dichotomy--with this quote, as I said, being one of the rare exceptions.

I don't think that's what Nemesis was supposed to imply at all. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but as I recall, the resolution of Picard's inner conflict was his realization that, like Data and B-4, he aspired to be more than what he was given, whereas Shinzon did not. That is, Picard is not Shinzon, because he chose not to be.

Far from being a rare exception, the scene quoted here was the conversation that directly led Picard to this understanding.

Post 7

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:11am

The movie could have been much better ('nother hard core trekkie here). There were a lot of deleated scenes and if you buy or rent the DVD, you can see some of them.

I especially liked the scene between Data and Picard that was supposed to take place right after the wedding, a whole Data asking Picard about life conversation much like they had in the series but with obvious links to the end of the movie.

I am glad they didn't put those alternate endings in though. Actually showing the new first officer (why not Worf?) would probably have continuality problems and, as a trekkie, I could not mentally accept a seatbelt on the command chair.

Post 8

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 2:52pm

Being no Star Trek fan (although I saw almost every Star Trek-movie and watched TNG and DS-9 with interest), I think the movie wasn't as good as it could be, but a way better than Star Trek: Generations.

I have nothing against the "Tech" behind Star Trek, but I am more of a fan of Babylon 5. It has a deeper sense for what a realistic show of the future can be.
This is also the reason, why I only liked the storyline involving Data's "never-ending" quest for being human and what fascinated him about it. It was perhaps the most humane plot in the whole movie ;) This reminded me of the ideas of Asimov and his creation of "android" robots and ideas of robotic psychology (though not the best, still very entertaining). The other parts of the Star Trek universe have this fleshed out socialist point of view (except perhaps the "rough" DS-9 storyline) that I cannot stand. It seems that fashion has become a victim to conformity.

Post 9

Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:43pm