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Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 8:29amSanction this postReply
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This poll has so many loaded features that I find it hard to know where to start.

The title asks, "Are you a capitalist?" That is quite different from the question, "Do you now or have you ever owned a business?" A person can support capitalism and answer "Yes" yet never own a business and answer "No." Not everyone has the soul of an entrepreneur, yet entrepreneurs need employees just like employees need entrepreneurs.

The other answers include loaded assumptions such as assuming that unionized or tenured or civil service types cannot "work hard." Tell that to any soldier. I dare you.

I will select Option 3, "I am an employee and I work hard," since that comes closest to describing me.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 4/18, 8:39am)


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Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 10:18amSanction this postReply
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Luke, good point. After your comment, I changed the poll after it was created. There were 7 votes already made. I attempted to make the answers answer the question while still maintaining what the original poll was asking.

I was not the author of this poll. I would have titled it "Do you create value?"
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores on 4/18, 10:21am)


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Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 1:03pmSanction this postReply
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Mike M. created the poll.  

Post 3

Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 5:08pmSanction this postReply
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I didn't answer the poll because none of the categories really applied to me. I am a capitalist, in that I believe in laissez-faire free markets. I am currently an employee, I can get fired (in fact, as a session hire, I have gotten "fired" seven times, in that my employment automatically ends each session, and will get "fired" again in a few weeks), I currently don't work all that hard, but will soon be sort of self-employed and working pretty damn hard for no immediate pay.

Post 4

Monday, April 19, 2010 - 1:24amSanction this postReply
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 Ones investments, be they ones knowledge and life skills, or the leverage attained by them in the form of a liquid asset is how I based my decision to respond to the poll.
Investing ones time to acquire and verify knowledge results in a wisdom that is a powerful tool ,yet many these days seek superficial results from others experience.
While the last poll brings up the reality of fighting for a smaller albeit more rational government and capitalism the reality is, the fight is in the education of the people. What the so called Tea Party desires already exists ,they have but to utilize the tools available. While many people may seek glory and the mythical big rock candy mountain it is in reality a mountain created by many.
Capitalism will serve you well if you know how to apply it. Sure we live in a democracy yet every where one turns their is an heirarchy of feudalism in many microchosms of society.Organized labor, so be a civil servant. The power structure is still feudalism. Private enterprise. obviously a barony.
Is there a problem with this? Michigan is a State with a right to work 'Law' and a fire at will 'Law' .
On any given day some boss will be mulling this over in their mind. Yet an employee has enough courage and the concept of responsibility to report to work. This is a difficult concept to explain to bosses in an advanced state of rhetoric that are only self centered and seeking their own pleasure.  


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Monday, April 19, 2010 - 7:44pmSanction this postReply
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OK time to play Truth or Dare because generally, we are a bunch of posers.  As far as I know, only John Armaos actually owns a business in the traditional and meaningful sense of the word.

Yeah, sure, I work hard at what I do, value for value, an honest day's work for an honest dollar and all that, but that is not really the same thing as owning a business.

Yes, back in 1978, when my wife asked me what we were going to do for a living, I took a white matchbook cover and drew the logo for "T-Square & Flowchart" on it.  We've been self-employed ever since -- but we were never responsible for much beyond ourselves. 

There's a difference.
And it makes a difference.

Luke Setzer called up the military.  Funny thing.  First off, the soldier is not unionized or tenured or civil service.  So, the soldier is not as described.  More subtly, however, on an aviation website, one of the other pilots said to me that he was "TDY" when someone said that NASA was military and he set them straight... and I replied that TDY is military for "temporary duty" so, clearly, NASA is, indeed, a mililtary service as they talk like one.  So, paradoxically, while soldiers are not civil service, civil servants can be soldiers.  Behtat as it may, I included the options to let Luke give himself a by on this, as it is expectedt that he works hard and intelligently, even if he gets paid the same amount every week regardless of what he does.

Polls here are not statistically valid  Six or seven people exchange 18 or 20 posts and we move on.  But they do stimulate discussion, which is all that I intended.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 4/19, 7:45pm)


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Post 6

Monday, April 19, 2010 - 9:02pmSanction this postReply
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Do you have to own a business to be a capitalist? I don't believe so. I would look at it as anyone who trades value for value to mutual benefit as consistently as they're able to and in a manner that achieves self sufficiency. Certainly, though, some people are better at it than others. For as much we admire wildly successful entrepreneurs, they are few and far in between on the statistical whole, and very rarely are they Objectivists.

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Post 7

Monday, April 19, 2010 - 10:25pmSanction this postReply
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Do you have to own a business to be a capitalist?

Absolutely not. You just have to believe in the value of capital and free trade.

Post 8

Sunday, May 2, 2010 - 2:46pmSanction this postReply
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I could have said "entrepreneur" and I could have stopped with a simple "Yes" or "No" on whether or not you own a business... or a business that employs others, paying taxes on their wages and status, etc., etc., etc.  I made the question open to interpretation.  It was further amended by Dean and that was fine, too. 

There is a mindset that differentiates us from others... or so we like to believe.  As philosophers here anyone can justify any course of action, certainly to themselves. 

What remains, though, is the extent to which you create wealth, and I agree that even in Marxist terms, the employee creates wealth.  The dividing line is whether you actively seek to do that.  In other words, I for one, always view my employer as my best customer, regardless of whose side of the bookkeeping tracks the taxes to be paid. 

Moreover, it is fully possible to own a business, to sell an indpendent service, while employed -- and many people do.  Sometimes the businesses become fulltime occupations, often they do not, nor do they need to.  So, I was surprised and disappointed at the dearth of responses in all and the apparent lack of entrepreneurship across the board.

Myself, since 2002, I have been an employee most often as a security guard.  At the same time, I write freelance and earn a hundred or two every month that way.  In addition, I get paid to speak at numismatic events.  I also earn small prizes (silver ounces, typically), by placing judged educational exhibits at numismatic conventions.  Last month, I set up a table in the business college of my university and sold antique stock certificates.  (A dean called campus safety on me -- no business can be done in the college of business -- and there is a story in that.)  But the fact is that I hustle.

I learned that from a crook I worked for.  The guy went to prison.  More of them should have.  But one thing I had to give him was that if he was not selling something, he did not have two nickels to rub in his pocket.  On the other hand, it took the government years to catch up with him because every night at 5:00 o' clock, they went home.  Finally, a single FBI guy had enough and took it upon himself, a form of entrepreneurship, if you want to think of it that way.

So far, all we have here is statements of faith not deeds.


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