RoR: Forum

At TAS they want Mr.Bidinotto to go. I don't see any other reasons for inviting Mr.Perigo.

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 1/20, 7:48pm)

Post 1

Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:15pm

And why would they be wanting him to go?

Post 2

Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:41am

Ciro, that is a pretty brazen and unsupported assertion.

Please elaborate or retract.

Post 3

Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:09am

Folks, I've corresponded privately with Ciro about his speculation, and I believe I've reassured him that it's a groundless one.

Post 4

Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:53pm

Having Robert Bidinotto work for your organization vs. Lindsay Perigo???

Hmmmm???? Tough one.

Let's see. . .

On the hand, you have someone who is a clear writer, an in-focus speaker, and an effective (award-winning) editor. And exhibits a high-degree of professionalism rather than bluster and pretending in these areas.

On the other hand, you have a p****, w**** b**s**a****.

....

NOTE: Principles of civility have forced me to redact the two adjectives and two-part hyphenated noun above. I've left the comma in.

Post 5

Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:24pm

Phil, I appreciate your attempt to inject levity into a situation that I find increasingly sad and depressing.

Post 6

Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:59am

***the personal attacks, food fight people are an infinitesimal minority within the Objectivist movement***

Robert, there is one piece of good news to allay depression about all this escalation of bomb-throwing and name-calling:

There are very few people doing it. Or reading about it.

It's not even a tempest in a teapot. It's a tempest among the microbes in the stain left behind when the teapot is moved away.

Posting things on a website gives the illusion of importance or impact. Notice that out of all the tens or hundreds of thousands of self-identified Objectivists out there . . . and millions of Ayn Rand fans, almost all of them have better things to do with their time.

Only about twenty people - ten on each side - post on these "personal demonization" topics. And it's the same ten it was two years ago. And almost no one is reading them. The traffic and interest on the two most inflammatory sites is almost the size of a site on the mating calls of crippled penguins, other than automated spiders and very tiny numbers of people blundering onto them from google searches.

You can see how little interest there is in this when you attend a summer conference of real people and no one wants to spend their time on these kinds of issues.

Or when you learn that a site which allows absolutely none of this, The Atlasphere, is an order of magnitude bigger than these Jerry Springer sites and, because it is civil and thoughtful and has material which is of importance, thus has steadily climbed to about 14,000 people taking the trouble to fill out information about themselves.

Let's do a real world experiment to see if I'm right:

Suppose Linz or MSK or anyone prominent in perpetuating these point-by-point excruciatingly minute never-shut-up muckraking accusations were to repeatedly advertise well in advance on a website and via networking that they were going to show up at, say, a bookstore and give a talk on these personal vendetta type issues, plus sign autographs, one could actually run an experiment and see how many people would show up -- even in a high population density Southern California and Objectivist-friendly county walking distance from a conference full of Objectivists.

Post 7

Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:31am

So Phil Coates thinks it�s all just �personal demonization� with both sides engaged in foolish bomb-throwing and name-calling. Morality has nothing to do with it. And his proof? Well, look at all the thousands of Objectivists who don�t seem to think it matters that Perigo has mounted vicious, scurrilous attacks against some of the most prominent leaders of the Objectivist movement�

I keep remembering a scene from this movie....

�Dominique!�

�Hello Peter.�

�What a pleasure to see you again. You look more beautiful than ever. Tell me, what do you think of this building? I�ve been trying to take a poll of opinion among the guests and��

�A what?�

�A poll of opinion about it.�

�What for? In order to find out what you think of it yourself?�

�We have to consider public opinion, don�t we?�

Post 8

Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:21am

- intellectual precision in arguments -

> So Phil Coates thinks it�s ***all*** just �personal demonization� .... Morality ***has nothing to do with it***.

Dennis, you are putting words in my mouth: I didn't say either of the two things I marked with asterisks.

Or say that I thought both sides had an equally valid position. What I condemn is the -manner- of conducting a discussion taken by many on both sides. One of the problems with these heated discussions is when people, in their eagerness to advance their side, post too quickly or unfairly or in anger exaggerate or make a mistaken assumption about someone's views.

....

Just as an aside, while I (i) agree with your criticisms of Mr. Perigo ("Perigo has mounted vicious, scurrilous attacks"), (ii) don't think TAS should have invited him to speak . . . and if you had read my posts on the subject in the past and currently, you would know this . . . what I disagree with is the -manner- in which many people discredit that position by adopting some of his tactics of either vilification or misstating or oversimplifying the views of not just myself, but ANYONE who disagrees with them.

....

Please don't "post back" and attempt to start an argument with me about this. Or attempt to have the last word on this point. Just accept my pointing out that you've oversimplified or made an unwarranted assumption about my position.

Post 9

Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:55am

Please don't "post back" and attempt to start an argument with me about this. Or attempt to have the last word on this point. Just accept my pointing out that you've oversimplified or made an unwarranted assumption about my position.

No.

Post 10

Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:51am

Phil,

... there is one piece of good news to allay depression about all this escalation of bomb-throwing and name-calling:

There are very few people doing it. Or reading about it. ...

... almost all of them have better things to do with their time.

Only about twenty people - ten on each side - post on these "personal demonization" topics. And it's the same ten it was two years ago. And almost no one is reading them.

I wasn't aware of all this, Phil. Thanks for the update.

I guess you could say that I've had better things to do with my time.

;-)

Ed

Post 11

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:43pm

yeah, seriously; even though I've been around a minute and remember "drunk Linz tearing into people in the most horrendous ways possible" and the Jennifer DiIannolo (apologies if misspelled) dustup and countless others, I haven't followed this at all.

Then again, I have kind of been preoccupied, what with being in Baghdad and all.

Ah wells, you live and learn: I used to admire Linz, but it's obvious he's fallen.

Ex #1 is solopassion. Yuck. That is all.

Post 12

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:46am